SH II down in So Indiana

Only for the grace of God go I. Condolences to his family and friends.

Aussie Paul. :)
 
I'm very sorry for his passing and the loss to his family. I wish there were some way we could know what actually happened.
 
Bummer. I really hope he recovers.

I'd really like to know the cause other than "engine failure". But speculation at this point is totally useless.

This is very sad.
Speculation as to the cause of this accident would be useless. I think one major problem with the fiberglass seat tanks in these (and mine) is the non-compadibility with ethanol. I have talked to 2 gyro guys that have landed engine outs due to this.
Please, if you have a fiberglass seat tank, DON'T USE ETHANOL!
I knew about these problems and was still using it in my tank. I had the "It won't happen to me attitude" I think I was lucky it didn't happen.
Brad
 
The problem isn't just an issue of ethanol weakening the tank. The larger problem is the fuel tanks rupturing and causing a fire in an otherwise survivable crash/hard landing. Over the past few years this has happened several times. We need to develop and use fuel cells/tanks that won't be easily ruptured in a crash or tip over. I don't know how much an aluminum tank would cost to be made for some of these 2 place machines but it would certainly be worth it if it increased the survivability rate.
 
Tim,
I agree with you totally...
The 2 engine outs I was talking about was the coating inside the tank blocking the flow of fuel. I have wanted to build an aluminum tank from the start. I think I will continue on that.
Brad
 
There was also a thread a while back that discussed a product, similar to steel wool, that you put into the fuel tank which helps to prevent fires in a rupture. May be worth doing some more research on.
 
My condolences to the family and friends.

On the subject of cockpit fires, I have installed an automatic fire extinguisher between the engine and my fuel tank. It was an easy install and not very expensive.

.
 
Tim,
I agree with you totally...
The 2 engine outs I was talking about was the coating inside the tank blocking the flow of fuel. I have wanted to build an aluminum tank from the start. I think I will continue on that.
Brad

Brad
Count me in on that, also make sure you can mount some type of new style seats to it
like Carbon fiber Recaros or something....:)
or the new ones Sport copter has. 18" wide each for the RAF cabin.
 
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My condolences , as well, to family and friends. One comforting thought is the fact that at 69, he was still pursuing his passion for flight, and passed doing what he loved. Still, my heartfelt sympathies.
 
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Fire prevention

Fire prevention

There was also a thread a while back that discussed a product, similar to steel wool, that you put into the fuel tank which helps to prevent fires in a rupture. May be worth doing some more research on.

It is called Explosafe, search for it on this forum.
 
Video looks great but.........

It only works if the tank does not fail and the fuel does not spill. IE. the fuel remains in the tank.

If the fuel tank fails or the fuel spills then the "detostop" will no longer work the fuel will still burn.

The devastating fires we see in accidents are most likley fuel fed from leaks and spillage not from fuel tank explosion which is what this product will prevent.

Flexible fuel hoses with fire proof coverings, flexible puncture resistant tanks and anti spill filler caps would probably be a better investment.
 
The problem isn't just an issue of ethanol weakening the tank. The larger problem is the fuel tanks rupturing and causing a fire in an otherwise survivable crash/hard landing. Over the past few years this has happened several times. We need to develop and use fuel cells/tanks that won't be easily ruptured in a crash or tip over. I don't know how much an aluminum tank would cost to be made for some of these 2 place machines but it would certainly be worth it if it increased the survivability rate.

Tim, you hit the nail here.

Unfortunately there are not enough SHs out there to justify making a mold and forming PEX fuel tanks. Custom aluminum tanks are a good second choice, especially if some form of energy absorption were built in between the seats and the tank. Aluminum is easily deformed by load and not very puncture resistant,

Picture a nasty 10g, near vertical impact. two 200lb pax =400lb x10g = 4,000lbs. You have to engineer a seat mount to give in an accident like that , but not allow two tons of pax to cave in fiberglass, carbon fiber or aluminum.

If I had the time or was the owner of a SH. I would look for an industrial (PEX) fuel tank that would fit the fuel bay of a SH. Many automotive fuel tanks have been made from PEX over the years, I'll bet one might make a good candidate.

Failing that, if enough SH owners got together they could probably convince one of the aircraft fuel cell rebuilders to make them a bladder that would fit their application. You would still need to brace against compression of the fuel cell in an impact.

Next year I'll put together a crashworthiness seminar Powerpoint for the PRA web site and Mentone.
 
Hi Tom

What would the rough cost of a tank from PEX costs, somewhere between oh my god and a valium ?????

Tony
 
Tim,
I agree with you totally...
The 2 engine outs I was talking about was the coating inside the tank blocking the flow of fuel. I have wanted to build an aluminum tank from the start. I think I will continue on that.
Brad

Brad, after I posted my comment I realized you were talking about the disolving problem which has led to the engine outs. My post was directed at the tanks bursting during a crash and dousing the occupants with fuel. There just seems like a solution can be found. Even if a bladder/new design cost $1000 it would be well worth it for the increased safety. It's bad enough if the pilot is flying alone and it happens to him but we've seen passengers burned to death. If I ever get a 2 place machine I want a better solution than what's currently out there.
 
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If I still had my SparrowHawk, I would be ripping out the seats and starting over with something better than fiberglass panels holding 20 plus gallons of fuel inside the cabin. That part always bugged me.

I feel tanks strapped alongside the keel and under the cabin would be better....and it would help lower the CG closer to the thrustline. My SparrowHawk flew great...but I wish I had double hang tested it so see how much lower the the thrustline was below the CG.


Stan
 
Hi Tom

What would the rough cost of a tank from PEX costs, somewhere between oh my god and a valium ?????

Tony

Tony, The tanks would be relatively inexpensive at $50 -$100 each (good guess)

The mold would be the killer. I was told that my seat tank mold cost around $14,000 to make. I understand it can and has been done cheaper.
I was told that my mold was made with varying thickness of aluminum to compensate for corners and flat areas. This provides consistant thickness of the tank.
I'll bet there is a boat, farm or truck fuel tank that would fit the bay reasonable. I have seen some very interesting tanks at my rotomolder.
 
Tom- Me thinks I am right. My SparrowHawk was low thrustline meaning the CG is above the thrustline. Lowering the fuel to tanks under the cabin would lower the CG, bringing the Cg closer to the thrustline. Show me my error and I will slap my forehead and admit it! Stan
 
Would using Aviation gas, be a quick fix? It contains no by-products.
 
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