Magni M24 - N648CM - South Dakota - prop

Question for smart people: Is it possible for something to go through the prop and do this damage without any damage to any of the other blades? I have had a go pro and a passengers sunglasses go through the prop and there was some damage on each and every propeller blade.
It's possible you didn't hit anything. Personally I'm a trust but verify kind of guy. .Might be wise to get a second opinion before you send it back to the manufacturer. If I had a similar prop on my gyro I would be concerned.
 
Hi Dan, yep unfortunately you will have a huge job in front of you.
With the forces that your engine, gearbox and airframe have experienced you must inspect it all.
For a start I would be sending the engine and gearbox off for inspection by a rotax repair facility, replacing the propeller hub and ALL of the bolts.
Your other propeller blades MAY be salvageable depending on what DUC have to say. I wish you luck as I have a 3 bladed DUC which appears brand new but has cracking on the aluminium ferrules due to galvanic action between the aluminium and the carbon fibre blade roots.
After sending DUC pics and requesting advice they stopped communicating.

And importantly the undercarriage and mast attachment to the keel areas. A complete strip down.

Regards.........Chook.
 
Man, I can't even imagine the vibration you felt with losing a prop blade like that. Great job getting her (and you) down in one piece!
 
That was me. Scary day after flying uneventfully for 20 minutes a tremendous vibration started and I lost some power. Thought for sure I was going down and notified the tower in Sioux Falls. After seeing a few power lines I noted I was holding altitude and had some control and managed to get to my airport 3 miles away. The vibration was so severe I could not really hear the tower and even seeing clearly was a chore. Landed ok and shut it down.

I had the rear cowling off as I was going to do an oil change. Mark Sprigg thinks something must have flown off the engine. I can find nothing missing. Other times I have had something go through the prop every blade was in some way affected. My other blades all look pristine.
Wow! Really glad you landed her safely, and I applaud your skill. Purely for discussion though, would you do the same thing again? Ideally one could argue that shutting off the engine as soon possible would be ideal in a situation like this as the aircraft could have come apart in a more drastic fashion, meaning an immediate landing with as little power as possible or an engine out landing. So two thoughts - was there any place before the airport where you think you could have landed safely, and did you consider shutting down the engine as soon as you knew you had the runway made? Early on in my gyro days a bolt that had not been torqued during the build came loose from the control rod at the base of the mast. Fortunately I was in the pattern at a small grass strip and managed to land by holding the stick fully back. The only thing holding the bolt from coming out completely and me loosing full control was it's proximity to the mast. That was the biggest bullet I've dodged in an aircraft to date.
 
@Chook
How do you mean they stopped communicating
EG. Not replying at all, or they replied and you queried advice, then they did not reply .
If the first it does not sat much for the Co.
@Doctordantodd
Good save but lucky why did you not shut down motor and land immediately
 
Wow! Really glad you landed her safely, and I applaud your skill. Purely for discussion though, would you do the same thing again? Ideally one could argue that shutting off the engine as soon possible would be ideal in a situation like this as the aircraft could have come apart in a more drastic fashion, meaning an immediate landing with as little power as possible or an engine out landing. So two thoughts - was there any place before the airport where you think you could have landed safely, and did you consider shutting down the engine as soon as you knew you had the runway made? Early on in my gyro days a bolt that had not been torqued during the build came loose from the control rod at the base of the mast. Fortunately I was in the pattern at a small grass strip and managed to land by holding the stick fully back. The only thing holding the bolt from coming out completely and me loosing full control was it's proximity to the mast. That was the biggest bullet I've dodged in an aircraft to date.
When this happened I honestly had no idea what was going on. I have no way of visualizing anything behind me in that plane. I had just switched to vfr from talking to the tower, so I switched back to FSD and told approach I thought I was going down with mechanical problems. There was a decent north wind so I picked a road, but noted power lines so I was settling on a tilled field. Then I noticed I was holding altitude and velocity to some degree so I kept heading towards the airport. I really could not hear the ATC very well at all. Mostly I was praying.

I guess I will find out how much damage I did with the imbalance and vibration by choosing to fly it home. It was about 3 miles. I cannot really say I was weighing my options with much intellect. Hail Mary Our Fathers were probably heard on the radio.
 
Hi Dan, yep unfortunately you will have a huge job in front of you.
With the forces that your engine, gearbox and airframe have experienced you must inspect it all.
For a start I would be sending the engine and gearbox off for inspection by a rotax repair facility, replacing the propeller hub and ALL of the bolts.
Your other propeller blades MAY be salvageable depending on what DUC have to say. I wish you luck as I have a 3 bladed DUC which appears brand new but has cracking on the aluminium ferrules due to galvanic action between the aluminium and the carbon fibre blade roots.
After sending DUC pics and requesting advice they stopped communicating.

And importantly the undercarriage and mast attachment to the keel areas. A complete strip down.

Regards.........Chook.
Appreciate the advice. Just wish it was easier. My blade broke right where the aluminum starts, probably not surprising regardless of the etiology.
 
SI've been flying NR propellers with all engines for 14 years, Rotax, Simonini, Yamaha, MWFly, it's honestly never happened to me! You haven't even seen the propellers sold by me or in any case NR tanned like this! Alone with impacts to the ground. Honestly, in the first tests done using a 160hp MWFly engine, it's the same 4-blade propeller, problems with cracks at the hub emerged, it's the company that prohibited it absolutely use these propellers on the entire MWFly range!! After some time you don't understand why, however, they gave the approval for use! 🤔 in the photo some damage caused by a spring I unload! An m8x25mm bolt, it's a go-pro! All three vehicles landed without any problem for the passengers or the model.
 

Attachments

  • Magni M24 - N648CM - South Dakota - prop
    IMG-20231214-WA0003.jpg
    109.4 KB · Views: 27
  • Magni M24 - N648CM - South Dakota - prop
    IMG-20231119-WA0000.jpg
    87.1 KB · Views: 29
  • Magni M24 - N648CM - South Dakota - prop
    IMG-20231014-WA0011.jpg
    154.6 KB · Views: 28
  • Magni M24 - N648CM - South Dakota - prop
    received_10213525931516656 (1).jpeg
    71.6 KB · Views: 29
Sono 14 anni che volo eliche NR con tutti i motori, Rotax, Simonini, Yamaha, MWFly, sinceramente non mi è mai successo! Non avete nemmeno visto le eliche da me vendute o comunque NR conciate così! Da solo con impatti al suolo. Sinceramente nei primi test fatti utilizzando un motore MWFly da 160cv è la stessa elica 4 pale, sono emersi problemi di crepe al mozzo, è l'azienda che ha vietato assolutamente l'utilizzo di queste eliche su tutta la gamma MWFly!! Dopo qualche tempo non si capisce perché, però, hanno dato il benestare all'uso! 🤔 nella foto alcuni danni causati da uno scarico a molla! Un bullone M8x25mm, è un professionista! Tutti e tre i veicoli sono atterrati senza alcun problema né per i passeggeri né per il modello.
ILI meant to write from a GoPro camera that came loose from its mount!
 
@Chook
How do you mean they stopped communicating
EG. Not replying at all, or they replied and you queried advice, then they did not reply .
If the first it does not sat much for the Co.
@Doctordantodd
Good save but lucky why did you not shut down motor and land immediately
500e, In June 2018, I sent an email to DUC, they replied and then I sent pics - no reply or further correspondence.
The blade series I had if I recall correctly required an inspection by the factory after 500 hours and I believe that the hubs were time limited as well in the fine print.

Regards........Chook.
 

Attachments

  • Magni M24 - N648CM - South Dakota - prop
    IMG_4715.JPG
    189.8 KB · Views: 24
  • Magni M24 - N648CM - South Dakota - prop
    IMG_4716.JPG
    182.4 KB · Views: 24
Appreciate the advice. Just wish it was easier. My blade broke right where the aluminum starts, probably not surprising regardless of the etiology.

That’s not good
 
Appreciate the advice. Just wish it was easier. My blade broke right where the aluminum starts, probably not surprising regardless of the etiology.
" My blade broke right where the aluminum starts, "


This is also where an object would have hit if it came off the side of the cowling similar to what I saw happen to another M24 with same prop from cowling screw that vibrated out.
M24 Screw.jpg
 
Might not be the prettiest or most expensive props but this is what I love about Warp Drive props. Dad put a ball peen hammer through one and it had just a dent.
I think you are right Mike, the Warp Drive is generally acknowledged as the most durable prop of the bunch. Prop durability is probably something not given enough consideration - it would be interesting to see some type of objective durability testing of various props. I'd bet some of these newer popular props like the E-Prop would not fare too well. The airboat people seem to choose either Warp Drive or Sensenich mostly - they might prioritize durability over modest performance improvements available with other props.
 
I think you are right Mike, the Warp Drive is generally acknowledged as the most durable prop of the bunch. Prop durability is probably something not given enough consideration - it would be interesting to see some type of objective durability testing of various props. I'd bet some of these newer popular props like the E-Prop would not fare too well. The airboat people seem to choose either Warp Drive or Sensenich mostly - they might prioritize durability over modest performance improvements available with other props.
Are there any studies on prop durability? Seems like a rare event overall, but terribly unpleasant.
 
Thanks for reply @Doctordantodd
Seems a high handed way to deal with a problem would not encourage me to buy their product.
Presume it had 500hours even then a reply pointing out would have been polite at least
 
Dr Dan,
I suggest you talk to your local FAA FSDO office. The FAA no longer looks the other way with homebuilt aircraft and writes us off as Kooks. I'd be willing to be they would run that prop through their lab in Washington DC.
Just a thought.
P.S. do you have ADSB on your gyro? I have an amazing app on my phone called Flight radar 24. I often filter the airspeed below 120 and eliminate the big boys. I watch all the medical helicopters at night. One day I tracked a "helicopter" up your way and checked the make aircraft...it turned out to be a gyro. Come to think of it, it may have been a Magni and it was in southern Minnesota.
 
Dr Dan,
I suggest you talk to your local FAA FSDO office. The FAA no longer looks the other way with homebuilt aircraft and writes us off as Kooks. I'd be willing to be they would run that prop through their lab in Washington DC.
Just a thought.
P.S. do you have ADSB on your gyro? I have an amazing app on my phone called Flight radar 24. I often filter the airspeed below 120 and eliminate the big boys. I watch all the medical helicopters at night. One day I tracked a "helicopter" up your way and checked the make aircraft...it turned out to be a gyro. Come to think of it, it may have been a Magni and it was in southern Minnesota.
I am in contact with the FAA because I called a "May Day" and they declared it an "incident" I think. I do have ADSB, I should maybe try to walk the areas to see if I can find the missing piece---that may solve the mystery. Thanks for the advice!
 
We have had other gyro pilots who suffered prop damage due to gun fire. My Dad when he was first flying was over an area used by hunters. He was about 1500 feet. He heard a loud bang and the Mac started shaking pretty bad. He landed safely and discovered a portion of the tip of his wood prop was gone. Then upon closer inspection there were streaks of lead from the projectile. He reported it but never heard anything. It was the 70's and the FAA thought of us as flying lawnchairs.
 
We have had other gyro pilots who suffered prop damage due to gun fire. My Dad when he was first flying was over an area used by hunters. He was about 1500 feet. He heard a loud bang and the Mac started shaking pretty bad. He landed safely and discovered a portion of the tip of his wood prop was gone. Then upon closer inspection there were streaks of lead from the projectile. He reported it but never heard anything. It was the 70's and the FAA thought of us as flying lawnchairs.
Ha. I do a fair amount of cosmetic nose surgery and one of the other pilots thought maybe one of my disgruntled patients could be shooting at me.
 
Top