"rethinking" the PRA

[NoWingsAttached]

Hmmm, I found it even though I did not know where it was by logging in and using the browser text search looking for 'Minuets'.
Found Click Here and it took me to the reports for 2011 and 2012. The last convention for physical year 2013 needs to be upload again after the hack. I'm waiting for Robert to email them to me and they will be up soon.
2014's will not be available until next June.

Here's a faster way.
1st Login then copy and paste this link http://pra.org/default.aspx?p=2012BBoardMeeting

I just tested this and It's worked for me.

That's the problem, exactly. No minutes for 2013 August - December, and nothing for any meetings in 2014.

Minutes for a single meeting in in each of the past years 2011, 2012, and spring 2013, and not including anything for 2014 is definitely a problem. If we don't have those minutes on net, but they are in WORD or PDF, please email to me. Thanks! I know how hard youare working, and you shouldn't be taxed this much to provide so much to the club, but...it is what it is at this point, the clock is ticking and I have but TWO DAYS to prepare for a very HIGH PROFILE meeting with the heads of the South East chapters to provide them adeqaute information upon which to decide their course for 2015.

If all I have to provide them is ... "Sorry guys, but the PRA BOD can't provide you with any minutes for meetings since 4-4-13", how do you think that is going to make me, and the BOD look to them?

The time has come, there are no excuses, there is only do...or not do. I am not playing hardball, I am only being forthcoming in what is about to take place on Friday and Saturday at Wrens, GA.

 

[NoWingsAttached]

Open invitation to wrens discussion of pra split

Open invitation to wrens discussion of pra split

This is an open invitation to all. If anyone wishes to attend and/or participate in what perhaps may be turn out to be the most historic meeting of the PRA, concerning the future of the organization with regards to the potential split of the South East local gyrocopter chapters from the PRA, come to the Wrens, GA Fly-In this weekend.

Details for finding us can be found on the Wrens threads elsewhere on the RWF.

 

[All_In]

That's the problem, exactly. No minutes for 2013 August - December, and nothing for any meetings in 2014.

Minutes for a single meeting in in each of the past years 2011, 2012, and spring 2013, and not including anything for 2014 is definitely a problem. If we don't have those minutes on net, but they are in WORD or PDF, please email to me. Thanks! I know how hard youare working, and you shouldn't be taxed this much to provide so much to the club, but...it is what it is at this point, the clock is ticking and I have but TWO DAYS to prepare for a very HIGH PROFILE meeting with the heads of the South East chapters to provide them adeqaute information upon which to decide their course for 2015.

If all I have to provide them is ... "Sorry guys, but the PRA BOD can't provide you with any minutes for meetings since 4-4-13", how do you think that is going to make me, and the BOD look to them?

The time has come, there are no excuses, there is only do...or not do. I am not playing hardball, I am only being forthcoming in what is about to take place on Friday and Saturday at Wrens, GA.

I was just going to post the minutes on the forum but they need to be converted to PDF and I do not have the software to do that... So I emailed them to you.

You can email Robert for the Financial Statements? Also audited Treasury reports take a lot of time. Thank Robert for not charging us for them. Not sure how much more work we can add to Robert plate of paying all the bills etc and ask him for more than yearly audited statements?

PS:
I only was allowed access to our site when the site was hacked a month ago. The web-site must be completely replaced so it has not been my top priority only fixing bugs take 1st priority. I was just going to wait until the real new page is created to post all this paperwork stuff as it's already printed in our eZine and work on generating revenue 1st.
Once I get the financial statements from Robert and we get copies of the source doc's for the airport I'll post everything even if we haven't replaced our web-site software yet.

 

[BUD ONEAL]

Bud,

The PRA financial report is already posted on our web site and has been for a long time. And you don't have to give your first born in trade to get it. Your statement is inaccurate and misleading and is not helping anything.

You seem to focus on making posts that make the whole situation seem much worse than it is. I don't know for sure if that is out of ignorance because you just haven't taken the time to look and you really don't know better, or if you know better but really just like to stir things up. Either way, it's time you either put some energy into learning what the true situation is, or leave it alone and let those that are involved explain to the world whats going on.

I apologize if these seems harsh. I really don't mean to be offensive but I am getting really tired of you constantly doing your best to cause problems, especially when you aren't even willing to take the time to learn the truth and don't honestly seem to be looking for truth. If you want to help the PRA be better then get involved and do something to help. If you don't care to be part of the solution and help us, then please leave us alone.

Doug Barker
PRA Pres.

Doug,
First let me thank you for your invite to "leave you alone" No thanks, I will not. If you cannot take the pressure then bail out.
Taking the time to learn the truth ? Sense when has the truth been available ? The truth has been hid so long that NO ONE knows where to look for it. As far as getting involved what the hell do you think that I have been doing ? I am not sorry for trying to find out just what is so secretive that you cannot answer. We are not the Masons , We did not have to swear secretly that we would not ask a question about what is supposed to be OUR club


For instance look at post 258,259,261 and 263. then tell me just how easy it is when even the "officers " cannot find it.
Again if I have offended you in any why then GET THE HELL OVER IT. Put your big boys pants on and continue of what YOU volunteered for or bail.:whip:

Thank you for your consideration Bud O'Neal Life member .:welcome:

 

[SWaRC]

This is an open invitation to all. If anyone wishes to attend and/or participate in what perhaps may be turn out to be the most historic meeting of the PRA, concerning the future of the organization with regards to the potential split of the South East local gyrocopter chapters from the PRA, come to the Wrens, GA Fly-In this weekend.

Details for finding us can be found on the Wrens threads elsewhere on the RWF.

Greg stop posting s h i t!
STOP NOW!
There is no South East chapters meeting without me.
And I am not going. Don't stir the pot!
Thank you.

 

[Dean_Dolph]

Bud

Many of us in the South East are pretty frustrated, as you well know. We (Peachstate, Sunstate, et. al.) all have our reasons for our frustrations, but I am going to stick with it and work it out no matter what for a at least a little while longer. I am not going to cut and run. I believe I can help, and I believe we can work together to turn this thing around. Hang in there, ol buddy! It ain't over yet.

Wrens will be a turning point, as Jon, Gabor, Barry, myself, someone from Tennessee, and hopefully Steve will all be getting together and see what we can come up with while we discuss how we want to proceed from there.

I doubt I will see you there, since we haven't heard from you regarding your attendance to this crucial meeting, but if you can make it your presence would SURELY be appreciated, as would any other key players that can make it if at all possible.

This will be a general meeting, an open discussion to all in attendance. No secrets, no closed doors, all who come will have a chance to listen and speak. With any luck the four chapters of the South East will all be properly represented, and we can take away from it our general heading for 2015.

I hope the weather is good so I can fly up there in the Wicked. Driving the gyrocopter on a trailer is such a...bore. You are personally invited to take the back seat - stick, throttle, pedals and all.

Bless you, and yours.

Gerg

Hmm, where were all these frustrated people when it came time to run for the PRA board of directors or volunteer to take on tasks for the PRA? What makes them think that if they break away from the PRA that their frustrations are going to disappear? Believe me; local problems usually mirror organizations problems.

What happens in these situations is that there are a few charismatic people who are very vocal and go in a direction they want which leaves the silent majority frustrated. And when a vote is taken, more than a few will look around to see how the show of hands is going and decide to go with what looks like is the majority. So, I suggest if this group takes a vote, on this very serious matter, that they do it by secret vote. What number or percentage of votes to dissolve the relationship with the PRA will it take to pass?

I'm feeling my own frustration at the moment with a group of people in the same area where many years ago, three PRA board members I voted for stepped down from the board because of their frustration rather than stay and fight the good fight and reach a consensus with their peers. Seldom is there a 100% agreement on anything so consensus is the goal. Win some, lose some but work toward a consensus.

I felt I had wasted my vote and was let down by these people who at the time I had a lot of respect for. Needless to see that respect went out the door when they did. From the outside it looked like kids taking their toys and going home because they didn't get their way.

I felt at the time, and still feel, that the problem was the lack of communication. This has always been a problem in the PRA.

The advent of the Internet provided a cure for a lot of that but it wasn't used well until the last couple of years when the PRA leadership started to make it a point to use it. I applaud the present PRA BOD for doing that but I can tell that some are getting frustrated themselves when trying to fight through the noise and static from non PRA Members who won't support the PRA regardless of the direction the PRA takes.

I'd like to suggest that the leaders of this meeting consider changing the agenda and use the meeting to discuss ways to support and promote the PRA instead of removing a whole region from the organization.

 

[Dean_Dolph]

......... Thank you for your consideration Bud O'Neal Life member .:welcome:

Bud, since you are a life member, that means you are also a PAC member so why haven't we seen many comments from you on the PAC forum? There are times that I feel like the Lone Ranger over there and welcome more PAC member participation.

 

[AirScooter]

Greg stop posting s h i t!
STOP NOW!
There is no South East chapters meeting without me.
And I am not going. Don't stir the pot!
Thank you.

Carolina agrees. We are going to have a drama free weekend.

 

[SWaRC]

I'd like to suggest that the leaders of this meeting consider changing the agenda and use the meeting to discuss ways to support and promote the PRA instead of removing a whole region from the organization.

With all due respect Dean the time for your or any of the BOD's suggestions have passed. The same way as the suggestions from presidents of the chapters were ignored and simply brushed off as nagging and bitching. As a matter of fact just a few posts ago were told to go to EAA and see what happens to them. Outright taunting them. Not a good strategy. Fighting a good fight is an honorable thing. There is also no shame in lining up on the deck of the Titanic to get in the life boats either!!!!!

 

[BUD ONEAL]

Bud, since you are a life member, that means you are also a PAC member so why haven't we seen many comments from you on the PAC forum? There are times that I feel like the Lone Ranger over there and welcome more PAC member participation.

Dean,

It will do no good to post or comment on the PAC forum as nothing has or will happen. We need to abolish all thoughts of "rebuilding" this mess and start all over.And I am not alone in this way of thinking.:drama:

 

[ultracruiser41]

Sorry Greg......there is no plan for a PRA discussion at the Wrens Fly In.

We couldn't even mention the PRA in the past because insurance was provided by the EAA.

I have nothing against the PRA and it's mission to grow....at this time....it just doesn't hold any value for me. I do commend those who are trying very hard to maintain the organization and wish all well.


Barry

Bud

Many of us in the South East are pretty frustrated, as you well know. We (Peachstate, Sunstate, et. al.) all have our reasons for our frustrations, but I am going to stick with it and work it out no matter what for a at least a little while longer. I am not going to cut and run. I believe I can help, and I believe we can work together to turn this thing around. Hang in there, ol buddy! It ain't over yet.

Wrens will be a turning point, as Jon, Gabor, Barry, myself, someone from Tennessee, and hopefully Steve will all be getting together and see what we can come up with while we discuss how we want to proceed from there.

I doubt I will see you there, since we haven't heard from you regarding your attendance to this crucial meeting, but if you can make it your presence would SURELY be appreciated, as would any other key players that can make it if at all possible.

This will be a general meeting, an open discussion to all in attendance. No secrets, no closed doors, all who come will have a chance to listen and speak. With any luck the four chapters of the South East will all be properly represented, and we can take away from it our general heading for 2015.

I hope the weather is good so I can fly up there in the Wicked. Driving the gyrocopter on a trailer is such a...bore. You are personally invited to take the back seat - stick, throttle, pedals and all.

Bless you, and yours.

Gerg

 

[GyroDoug]

Doug,
First let me thank you for your invite to "leave you alone" No thanks, I will not. If you cannot take the pressure then bail out.
Taking the time to learn the truth ? Sense when has the truth been available ? The truth has been hid so long that NO ONE knows where to look for it. As far as getting involved what the hell do you think that I have been doing ? I am not sorry for trying to find out just what is so secretive that you cannot answer. We are not the Masons , We did not have to swear secretly that we would not ask a question about what is supposed to be OUR club


For instance look at post 258,259,261 and 263. then tell me just how easy it is when even the "officers " cannot find it.
Again if I have offended you in any why then GET THE HELL OVER IT. Put your big boys pants on and continue of what YOU volunteered for or bail.:whip:

Thank you for your consideration Bud O'Neal Life member .:welcome:

Bud,

I am not saying that our website is organized and professional and easy to find information on. I will be the first to say I think the current website "sucks" and I have been trying to find a better solution for some time. Some of the challenges with that are, a new better website is going to cost thousands of dollars to create and take hundreds of volunteer hours to get going, and once we have one, getting the right people in place to see that it is regularly updated and contains all the information it needs to is a daunting task, but we are working on that.

I would be glad to have you get involved on any level that you are willing to, if by getting involved you mean actually doing something to improve our organization and work to make it better. But it seems that your idea of getting involved is sitting there making negative posts that have very little to do with reality and absolutely nothing to do with helping make anything better. If you believe that making accusations and stating false information in a way that makes the organization look even worse than it really is, is helping the organization in any way, then you really need to re-think this whole topic.

There is no secret information that is being hid from anyone. No one has refused to answer anything. You are painting this whole situation in such an unrealistic light that it simply confuses others who don't really know what is really going on. There are all kinds of things that need to be improved in our organization. No one is arguing that. Most of them could be corrected by someone with the correct skill set, being willing to donate some of their time to help us do a better job, but we have way more work that needs to be done, than we have workers volunteering to help us with. But trying to make it appear that there is some kind of "Good Old Boy Conspiracy" going on, and that someone is purposely hiding the facts or the truth from our members is laughably ridiculous and totally inaccurate.

I am not offended by your statements, but I do admit I get very tired of spending more and more time, going over the same information and trying to set the record straight from comments that don't seem to be motivated by a desire to help improve the organization but instead seem to be the ramblings of someone with a chip on their shoulder, who really just wants to stir the pot and cause as much dissension as they can. One minute you say you don't give a XXXX about the organization and the next you are acting like you really care and are trying to help make it better. I am confused by your inconsistent comments and not sure when you are being sincere and when you are just spouting off (like your comments above) which seem to be intended to create drama. But I try to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you genuinely care about the organization. So if you do, then find a way to be constructive and help, rather than the negative criticizing that seems to be the only thing I see come from you.

I don't believe my earlier comment was out of line and I still stand by it. "If you don't care to be part of the solution, and help us, then please leave us alone." If you think your negative comments are helping make this organization better, I have news for, you they are not! They simply make others not want to be involved in an organization that seems to have a little negative cloud following everywhere it goes. Note: I did not say "Go away". I realize that you are a life member and have a right to be part of our organization as long as you care to. I said, "Leave us alone". What I meant by that is please quit making statements that are inaccurate and that attack the organization or any of the people that are donating their time to support and help the organization. I am not saying you shouldn't remain a member I am just saying, QUIT TRYING TO HURT THE ORGANIZATION! Unless you have some ulterior motive that I don't understand, that shouldn't be hard for you to do. Please think about my request.

Doug Barker
PRA Pres.

 

[LGoodhind]

Doug-

>a new better website is going to cost thousands of dollars to create and take hundreds of volunteer hours to get going, and once we have one, getting the right people in place to see that it is regularly updated and contains all the information it needs to is a daunting task

I would question this assumption.

Is either PRA or PRA Mentone organized as a 501C3 org? If so you can get free web hosting from a number of ISPs without any embedded advertising; I'd be happy to put the paperwork through for the org. I seem to remember somebody said PRA Mentone was a 501 yesterday.

As far as content editing a freeware content management system can get installed and once it is then it is a simple matter to authorize authors and editors at a chapter level with no programming or scripting required.

The PRA website doesn't (in my opinion) require fresh content beyond event announcements and self-published chapter newsletters but assuming you have a continual source of fresh content adding it to a website designed around sticky basic information with the latest few news stories on the home page would seem to cover that without requring constant updates to the structure of the site.

What does this multi-thousand dollar website look like and why does the PRA need to hire contractors to create and maintain it?

 

[Jason O]

It seems like lGoodhind has the skills and inclination to whip up a website. I think you should encourage him to do so.

Doug-

>a new better website is going to cost thousands of dollars to create and take hundreds of volunteer hours to get going, and once we have one, getting the right people in place to see that it is regularly updated and contains all the information it needs to is a daunting task

I would question this assumption.

Is either PRA or PRA Mentone organized as a 501C3 org? If so you can get free web hosting from a number of ISPs without any embedded advertising; I'd be happy to put the paperwork through for the org. I seem to remember somebody said PRA Mentone was a 501 yesterday.

As far as content editing a freeware content management system can get installed and once it is then it is a simple matter to authorize authors and editors at a chapter level with no programming or scripting required.

The PRA website doesn't (in my opinion) require fresh content beyond event announcements and self-published chapter newsletters but assuming you have a continual source of fresh content adding it to a website designed around sticky basic information with the latest few news stories on the home page would seem to cover that without requring constant updates to the structure of the site.

What does this multi-thousand dollar website look like and why does the PRA need to hire contractors to create and maintain it?

 

[Brent Drake]

Larry, I just checked. Both of the corps are non profit. Please check into this more and get back with me please.

 

[GyroDoug]

Doug-

>a new better website is going to cost thousands of dollars to create and take hundreds of volunteer hours to get going, and once we have one, getting the right people in place to see that it is regularly updated and contains all the information it needs to is a daunting task

I would question this assumption.

Is either PRA or PRA Mentone organized as a 501C3 org? If so you can get free web hosting from a number of ISPs without any embedded advertising; I'd be happy to put the paperwork through for the org. I seem to remember somebody said PRA Mentone was a 501 yesterday.

As far as content editing a freeware content management system can get installed and once it is then it is a simple matter to authorize authors and editors at a chapter level with no programming or scripting required.

The PRA website doesn't (in my opinion) require fresh content beyond event announcements and self-published chapter newsletters but assuming you have a continual source of fresh content adding it to a website designed around sticky basic information with the latest few news stories on the home page would seem to cover that without requring constant updates to the structure of the site.

What does this multi-thousand dollar website look like and why does the PRA need to hire contractors to create and maintain it?

Larry,

Neither of these organizations are a 501(c)3 Non profit, so they won't qualify for Free Web Hosting, but that has never been the biggest expense with having a web site.

I would love to explain to you all of the things the Board is looking at doing right now, and what the costs are and why it is what it is, but to be honest with you, this forum is not the place for us to be conducting Board Business and I can't lay that all out here on a public forum without breaking the rules that govern the Board. So I will not. But I can tell you that we are already thinking along the lines of what you have laid out and we are working hard to bring about some of those changes. So please give us a little time and I think you will be very happily surprised with what you see coming out of the PRA in the next few months.

Doug Barker
PRA Pres.

 

[Dean_Dolph]

.......What we need is to focus on one project at a time. 30 projects is so vast it seems that nothing gets done. Please respect that.......

Brent, is there a reason to keep those 30 projects under wraps? I ask because you are right, 30 projects is way too many for 6 board members to juggle at one time. Isn't there anyone on the BOD that has experience as a projects manager?

If so, then has a project prioritization been done?

Has a timeline been created for the highest priority projects?

Have the goals of each project been defined?

Has a project manager for each project been identified?

Have needed resources been identified for each project?

Are those resources available?

Can some projects be run in parallel?

Do some projects depend on another one being done 1st? This helps set priorities.

I've suggested to all that would listen for more years than I care to remember, that the BOD can't do it all and really are there to manage the business of the PRA not actually manage the projects. But, that is what it has come down to. Is that because there has been no one to step up or because the BOD hasn't done a search for project managers?

This is the 1st time that I've heard that 30 projects are in the works. If that is the case with others then no one knows if there is one they could, can and will step up to manage. Send the 30 project list to the PAC and lets see if there is anyone that will volunteer to shepherd a project to completion. The BOD would still have oversight responsibility.

 

[Dean_Dolph]

Larry, I just checked. Both of the corps are non profit. Please check into this more and get back with me please.

Brent, the question becomes 'are all non profits treated the same?' It is my understanding that neither of the corporations are a 501 (c) (3). There are other 501 (c) organizations but the (3) seems to be the one that is granted IRS tax exemptions.

 

[gyromike]

Larry, I just checked. Both of the corps are non profit....

PRA Vice Pres. # 38604

Larry,

Neither of these organizations are a 501(c)3 Non profit...
Doug Barker
PRA Pres.

Wait...what?:twitch:

 

[All_In]

Doug-

>a new better website is going to cost thousands of dollars to create and take hundreds of volunteer hours to get going, and once we have one, getting the right people in place to see that it is regularly updated and contains all the information it needs to is a daunting task

I would question this assumption.

Is either PRA or PRA Mentone organized as a 501C3 org? If so you can get free web hosting from a number of ISPs without any embedded advertising; I'd be happy to put the paperwork through for the org. I seem to remember somebody said PRA Mentone was a 501 yesterday.

As far as content editing a freeware content management system can get installed and once it is then it is a simple matter to authorize authors and editors at a chapter level with no programming or scripting required.

The PRA website doesn't (in my opinion) require fresh content beyond event announcements and self-published chapter newsletters but assuming you have a continual source of fresh content adding it to a website designed around sticky basic information with the latest few news stories on the home page would seem to cover that without requring constant updates to the structure of the site.

What does this multi-thousand dollar website look like and why does the PRA need to hire contractors to create and maintain it?

Larry you and I are in total agreement. There are other solutions but not all the BOD members understand what is really needed as they are not programmers, many believe if we have one person do it and they leave then it will stop working and no one else can fix it. Of course the opposite is true. No one is trained how to run these CPM software packages in any school yet even a high-school kid could hack another programmers source code if it in PHP, html, or aspx and once it is debugged pages rarely break.

We do have a BOD member searching for open source freeware written in PHP, html, and aspx pages. Once these tools are put together in a demonstration site I will make a motion that the BOD demos/ tests and if they like it debug it! However this takes time to search for each program then installed and tested then to evaluate which one fits PRA needs best.

We have so few volunteers to help us so we have to prioritize our projects.

Generating new revenue is 1st in most of the BOD minds so most of the time is being spent at fixing revenue 1st.
Soon these revenue projects will be running with much less labor from now on and then the web-site will be NEXT and much more!