Sport Pilot Airplane test (SPA) vs Sport Pilot Gyroplane test (SPY)

[bryancobb]

Hope that confirms accurate answer for you.

 

[bryancobb]

I found the Gleim course better for overall knowledge and understanding of the subject matter. Dauntless was good if all you want to do is pass the Knowledge Exam.

That's a good example of people making up their own rules instead of simply meeting the FAA requirements. The goal is getting your license. To get your license requires passing the test. Having your license ...is the license to learn. The 20 hours of experience you build, flying with an instructor and solo is where "overall knowledge and understanding of the subject matter" is acquired. The next decade of flying still won't teach you everything but it gets you closer to understanding the subject matter. Example: Most newly minted pilots, and many airline pilots can't explain the effect altitude or temperature has on true airspeed and why that matters.

 

[WaspAir]

I recently took a gyro Discovery Flight and, although the CFI entered it into my pilot's log, he made it clear that it doesn't count toward my Sport Pilot Airplane hours.

To be more precise, it does count towards total flight experience toward any rating, but because of the way 61.313(a)(1) is written, it does not reduce the airplane hours you need, because that section requires 20 hours total and 20 in airplanes (15 dual and 5 solo).

[Other sections are different. For example, airship privileges under (e)(1) require 20 hours total, with only 18 in airships (15 dual and 3 PIC). The other 2 could be gyroplane hours.]

If you go for private airplane privileges under 61.109(a), that requires 40 total hours, but only 20 dual and 10 solo in airplanes, so up to 10 hours in other aircraft can be applied. Other ratings similarly have total hours that exceed time required in class, permitting you to count some gyro hours.

 

[bryancobb]

I was wondering, can my time with a gyro CFI count for Sport Pilot airplane

A gyro is a "powered aircraft." If the airplane rating you are seeking says "must have xx hours in powered aircraft," it counts.
If the regs say "must have xx hours in a gyrocopter, it doesn't.

 

[bryancobb]

To be more precise, it does count towards total flight experience toward any rating, but because of the way 61.313(a)(1) is written, it does not reduce the airplane hours you need, because that section requires 20 hours total and 20 in airplanes (15 dual and 5 solo).

[Other sections are different. For example, airship privileges under (e)(1) require 20 hours total, with only 18 in airships (15 dual and 3 PIC). The other 2 could be gyroplane hours.]

If you go for private airplane privileges under 61.109(a), that requires 40 total hours, but only 20 dual and 10 solo in airplanes, so up to 10 hours in other aircraft can be applied. Other ratings have similar total hours that exceed time required in class, permitting you to count some gyro hours.

The person giving the "discovery flight" may not have been a CFI.

 

[WaspAir]

The person giving the "discovery flight" may not have been a CFI.

If not a CFI, there had better be a commercial rating for that flight (no pretense of calling it "instruction" will apply) and the logging of the time in the "passenger" logbook is problematic.

Smoline called the pilot a CFI in his post.

 

[Loren Jones]

I recently took a gyro Discovery Flight and, although the CFI entered it into my pilot's log, he made it clear that it doesn't count toward my Sport Pilot Airplane hours.

I've always treated discovery flights like an introductory lesson and logged it as such so they always count toward a rating.

 

[Loren Jones]

The person giving the "discovery flight" may not have been a CFI.

If not he shouldn't have been filling anything out in a logbook as it would be meaningless.

 

[smoline]

Hope that confirms accurate answer for you.

Yes it does. Thanks, all!

 

[smoline]

To be more precise, it does count towards total flight experience toward any rating, but because of the way 61.313(a)(1) is written, it does not reduce the airplane hours you need, because that section requires 20 hours total and 20 in airplanes (15 dual and 5 solo).

[Other sections are different. For example, airship privileges under (e)(1) require 20 hours total, with only 18 in airships (15 dual and 3 PIC). The other 2 could be gyroplane hours.]

If you go for private airplane privileges under 61.109(a), that requires 40 total hours, but only 20 dual and 10 solo in airplanes, so up to 10 hours in other aircraft can be applied. Other ratings similarly have total hours that exceed time required in class, permitting you to count some gyro hours.

Good clarification; thanks. In pursuing Sport Pilot Certification, the hour in a gyro does not count against the required 15 hours of dual instruction. To my disappointment, neither did the 1.5 hours I spent in a Redbird flight simulator. Flight simulators count toward PPL (and perhaps Recreation), but not toward Sport.

 

[smoline]

The person giving the "discovery flight" may not have been a CFI.

He was/is a CFI.

 

[Mayfield]

I may have misunderstood Dave's situation. I thought he had acquired a SP certificate with Gyroplane privileges and wanted to add airplane privileges.

Jim

 

[dabkb2]

I may have misunderstood Dave's situation. I thought he had acquired a SP certificate with Gyroplane privileges and wanted to add airplane privileges.

Jim

You are correct, I have a Sport Pilot Gyroplane, and was wondering what it's going to take to get Sport Pilot Airplane

 

[Mayfield]

You are correct, I have a Sport Pilot Gyroplane, and was wondering what it's going to take to get Sport Pilot Airplane

I am certainly willing to entertain the possibility that I may be misunderstanding something, but it appears to me that 61.321 outlines your path forward. Note there are no aeronautical experience requirements (61.313) in the new category/class. The recommending instructor will have to endorse your log to attest that you meet the requirements of 61.309 and 61.311 but that should not be a problem as you had to meet those requirements, for your current privileges. To achieve the same level of competency in a LSA airplane should not be difficult.

Jim

§ 61.321 How do I obtain privileges to operate an additional category or class of light-sport aircraft?​

If you hold a sport pilot certificate and seek to operate an additional category or class of light-sport aircraft, you must—

(a) Receive a logbook endorsement from the authorized instructor who trained you on the applicable aeronautical knowledge areas specified in § 61.309 and areas of operation specified in § 61.311. The endorsement certifies you have met the aeronautical knowledge and flight proficiency requirements for the additional light-sport aircraft privilege you seek;
(b) Successfully complete a proficiency check from an authorized instructor other than the instructor who trained you on the aeronautical knowledge areas and areas of operation specified in §§ 61.309 and 61.311 for the additional light-sport aircraft privilege you seek;
(c) Complete an application for those privileges on a form and in a manner acceptable to the FAA and present this application to the authorized instructor who conducted the proficiency check specified in paragraph (b) of this section; and
(d) Receive a logbook endorsement from the instructor who conducted the proficiency check specified in paragraph (b) of this section certifying you are proficient in the applicable areas of operation and aeronautical knowledge areas, and that you are authorized for the additional category and class light-sport aircraft privilege.

 

[Abid]

You are correct, I have a Sport Pilot Gyroplane, and was wondering what it's going to take to get Sport Pilot Airplane

Get training in a light sport airplane from a CFI. CFI recommends you in a 8710-11 and your logbook. You go to another airplane CFI you gives you an oral and flight checkride and endorses you for additional category and class and sends in the 8710-11

 

[WaspAir]

I haven't seen a paper 8710 in eons. Everything I've done has been online through IACRA, so there's nothing to send in.

 

[Loren Jones]

I haven't seen a paper 8710 in eons. Everything I've done has been online through IACRA, so there's nothing to send in.

IACRA doesn't support CFI proficiency checks for sport pilot endorsements, hence the need for the paper 8710.

 

[WaspAir]

Well, that's a bummer. So last century.

 

[Loren Jones]

Well, that's a bummer. So last century.

It is. And every FSDO seems to be very picky about how it's filled out, and they're not all on the same page about those details.

 

[WaspAir]

There was difficulty when IACRA first started for balloon pilots, because balloon instruction is done by commercial certificate holders who don't have a CFI rating (there is no such thing for LTA) so the system couldn't recognize them as valid recommenders.