New MOSAIC NPRM - 4 seat 3000 pound airplanes allowed to be flown by Sport Pilot

[Abid]

Federal Register :: Request Access

Here are some highlights of the summary as per a FB poster named Courtney Bertling as I have not had the time to read the 300+ page unpublished doc yet personally
If true, then we are looking at a very different market place for sport pilots

What is in the FAA's new MOASIC proposal? More than we expected!
Night flying
Helicopter flying
Retractable gear
Up to 3,000 lbs aircraft
220 knots airspeed
Controlled pitch prop
Aerial work
4 seat aircraft (1 passenger limit)
Can fly any aircraft that meets the limits, no longer restricted to Light Sport qualifying airplanes
The term "Light Sport" is gone
CFI endorsement required for new privileges
Noise standards
Remember, these are just proposals. They may change. The 300 page doc is on the FAAs home page. I dug through it so you don't have to.

For rotorcraft:
"Although this proposal would enable certification of new types of light-sport category aircraft such as rotorcraft and powered lift, this proposal would limit these aircraft to two seats. The FAA has little experience on the safety metrics associated with these classes of light-sport category aircraft, as such, the FAA finds that the maximum seating capacity of two is appropriate. The FAA may consider future rulemaking to increase the proposed two seat limitation for these classes of aircraft as experience increases and consensus standards are developed."

"8. Fixed-Pitch, Semi-Rigid, Teetering-Two Blade Rotor System (If a Gyroplane)
The current § 1.1 definition of light-sport aircraft requires gyroplanes to have fixed-pitch, semi-rigid, teetering two blade rotor systems. This proposal would omit this as an eligibility requirement in § 22.100 to enable industry to develop new designs for gyroplane rotor systems. However, under proposed § 61.316(a)(6), the FAA would continue to limit sport pilots to operate gyroplanes that have a fixed-pitch, semi-rigid, teetering-two blade rotor system. "

 

[bryancobb]

If this is adopted into law as written, and since the term "Light Sport" aircraft will die, what will happen to Subpart K CFI's like me and you?
Can we now give day-VFR flight training and flight instruction in 4-seat planes with retracts and a constant speed prop, as long as they
weigh less than 3000# and as long as we stay below "O2 needed" altitudes?

 

[Abid]

If this is adopted into law as written, and since the term "Light Sport" aircraft will die, what will happen to Subpart K CFI's like me and you?
Can we now give day-VFR flight training and flight instruction in 4-seat planes with retracts and a constant speed prop, as long as they
weigh less than 3000# and as long as we stay below "O2 needed" altitudes?

Nothing. You are mixing "aircraft" with pilot and Sport CFI.
Yes we will be able to give day-VFR training in a 4 seat airplane (not any other category) if we are a Sport CFI for airplanes. Only restriction is that we will need a checkout in the aircraft from another CFI and that we can only have one other person in that aircraft (single student).
Not that 3000 pounds is a limitation they expect to be imposed by stall speed (54 knots) and not a prescriptive restriction. If one can design and build an airplane that stalls at 54 knots and still can go to gross weight of say 3500 pounds, so be it. Though airplanes are fairly easy to design by the numbers and it is difficult to design beyond those numbers.

 

[PeterFromLA]

Don't expect 4 seat gyros just yet...

 

[querist]

Don't expect 4 seat gyros just yet...

There are Three-seat gyros - Argon has one. I know the US distributor (former colleague at a different university). One in the front and two in the back.

 

[okikuma]

If the new MOSAIC NPRM 2023-1377, notice number 23-10 proposed changes are fully approved. Conceivably, the GBA Hawk 4 gyroplane would qualify. Too bad the price was if I recall correctly around 750K. One could purchase a used Bell B-206 for around half that price.

Wayne

 

[Abid]

Don't expect 4 seat gyros just yet...

No. Only 2 seat machines will be allowed under MOSAIC. Only thing 4 seat is airplane.

 

[Abid]

If the new MOSAIC NPRM 2023-1377, notice number 23-10 proposed changes are fully approved. Conceivably, the GBA Hawk 4 gyroplane would qualify. Too bad the price was if I recall correctly around 750K. One could purchase a used Bell B-206 for around half that price.

Wayne

No. Only airplanes get Togo to 4 seats

 

[Mayfield]

If the new MOSAIC NPRM 2023-1377, notice number 23-10 proposed changes are fully approved. Conceivably, the GBA Hawk 4 gyroplane would qualify. Too bad the price was if I recall correctly around 750K. One could purchase a used Bell B-206 for around half that price.

Wayne

I really enjoyed flying that aircraft. The first flight was actually pretty anticlimactic, as first flights should be if planned well.

I was the pilot for all the shots in that video as I had not yet checked out Terry and Scott.

Neat aircraft but it was very much a prototype. Too heavy, too underpowered, too expensive.

It's easy to engineer for strength, or lightness, or economy. It's very difficult to engineer for all three.

I suspect Abid knows exactly how that feels and how it affects the product.

Jim

 

[okikuma]

No. Only 2 seat machines will be allowed under MOSAIC. Only thing 4 seat is airplane.

Or will it be with any multi-seat gyroplane, one can only "fill" two seats to fly?

As a collateral example, an ASEL pilot can legally fly an ASES amphibian aircraft if all takeoffs and landings are only performed on land.

Wayne

 

[Eric S]

I haven't felt limited by sport pilot b/c I like low and slow. My struggle is with annual inspections. The A&P I used for "owner assisted" annuals retired and now I can't find anyone local willing to inspect my experimental plane or gyro. I wish they allowed a repairman class for EAB aircraft like they do for ELSA.

 

[Abid]

Or will it be with any multi-seat gyroplane, one can only "fill" two seats to fly?

As a collateral example, an ASEL pilot can legally fly an ASES amphibian aircraft if all takeoffs and landings are only performed on land.

Wayne

No. Anything besides airplanes remains 2 seat in Sport Pilot world

 

[querist]

No. Anything besides airplanes remains 2 seat in Sport Pilot world

True, but there ARE three-seat gyros. You need at least a Private or Recreational pilot certificate in the US to fly them, but they do exist.

 

[Abid]

True, but there ARE three-seat gyros. You need at least a Private or Recreational pilot certificate in the US to fly them, but they do exist.

Yes of course but that has always been the case. Obviously the market is mainly a sport pilot market for gyroplanes here.

 

[Peterpilot]

Federal Register :: Request Access

Here are some highlights of the summary as per a FB poster named Courtney Bertling as I have not had the time to read the 300+ page unpublished doc yet personally
If true, then we are looking at a very different market place for sport pilots

What is in the FAA's new MOASIC proposal? More than we expected!
Night flying
Helicopter flying
Retractable gear
Up to 3,000 lbs aircraft
220 knots airspeed
Controlled pitch prop
Aerial work
4 seat aircraft (1 passenger limit)
Can fly any aircraft that meets the limits, no longer restricted to Light Sport qualifying airplanes
The term "Light Sport" is gone
CFI endorsement required for new privileges
Noise standards
Remember, these are just proposals. They may change. The 300 page doc is on the FAAs home page. I dug through it so you don't have to.

For rotorcraft:
"Although this proposal would enable certification of new types of light-sport category aircraft such as rotorcraft and powered lift, this proposal would limit these aircraft to two seats. The FAA has little experience on the safety metrics associated with these classes of light-sport category aircraft, as such, the FAA finds that the maximum seating capacity of two is appropriate. The FAA may consider future rulemaking to increase the proposed two seat limitation for these classes of aircraft as experience increases and consensus standards are developed."

"8. Fixed-Pitch, Semi-Rigid, Teetering-Two Blade Rotor System (If a Gyroplane)
The current § 1.1 definition of light-sport aircraft requires gyroplanes to have fixed-pitch, semi-rigid, teetering two blade rotor systems. This proposal would omit this as an eligibility requirement in § 22.100 to enable industry to develop new designs for gyroplane rotor systems. However, under proposed § 61.316(a)(6), the FAA would continue to limit sport pilots to operate gyroplanes that have a fixed-pitch, semi-rigid, teetering-two blade rotor system. "

Night flight without a medical and with a simple endorsement is a big move.