Mosquito Helicopter questions

[camroe]

Hi all,

I had a few random questions about the Mosquito helicopter, specifically about the XE3 and XET (turbine) and thought I would ask this group and see what happened!

I guess the first one occurred to me while I was reviewing the specs for the two models. The XE3 seems to give very close performance numbers and even better in some areas such as 9500' HGE vs 9000' HGE for the XET and a longer range for the XE3. Am I missing something? what is the turbine engine supposed to give you for approximately an extra $7K

Thanks

 

[C. Beaty]

Reliability/durability/social status

 

[Rotor F/X]

Reliability/durability/social status

.. agreed , and a turbine for time building if that is your goal.

By the way Camroe, we will be at the Rotors Over the Rockies show near you in June. Info for that event at: https://www.utahrotorcraft.org/ROTR.html . Hope to see you there.

 

[StanFoster]

Camroe- The Mosquito helicopter is one sweet machine. I would prefer the turbine...but that is just me. The other engine seems to be doing just fine. The smell and the sound of a turbine, plus its just loafing along...makes it an engine suited to continous high horsepower settings.

The Mosquitos parts are built with care...and the people that run it are nice and professional.

Stan

 

[camroe]

Thanks all.

Just to be clear, is a turbine a different type rating? (read helicopter newbie nick name )


And Rotor F/X, I will be at the ROTR and really looking forward to it!

Does anyone know the TBO for the XE3 (sorry don't know the model number of the engine off hand) vs the turbine? ...... And I guess that brings up another question - how many hours has the longest lived XE3 been out there? Longest lived XE?

 

[WaspAir]

There is no rating or endorsement required by the FAA for turbines, or for multi-engine, or for other any variation in helicopter power plants. Once you have a rotorcraft-helicopter class rating, you won't need anything else, unless you get into a situation that requires an ATP (and those are pretty darn rare these days). Insurance companies, of course, can make up their own rules.

 

[StanFoster]

Camroe- I might add from personal experience...there will be more required from you to submit to the FAA if you go to the turbine engine. The FAA will require from you a turbine maintenance program before the airworthiness certificate is granted. Thats the case with my turbine for my Helicycle. I am going through that right now with my FAA person. I will be good to go...but had to send him two manuals by mail...that he is reviewing.

Stan

 

[camroe]

Thanks Wasp. That's good to know.

 

[camroe]

...there will be more required from you to submit to the FAA if you go to the turbine engine. The FAA will require from you a turbine maintenance program before the airworthiness certificate is granted.

Stan

That is also great to know!

I gotta tell ya, it sure is nice to be able to ask questions and get the information ... makes life so much easier.

 

[PW_Plack]

Just to be clear, is a turbine a different type rating?

Not for aircraft this small, especially experimentals. It's simply a resume enhancement.

If you ever want to work in the industry and fly turbine helos, some companies and their insurance underwriters want to see some specified minimum number of hours of turbine helicopter time logged. For some builders, making their play time count toward that total is worth any extra fuel costs or hassles.

 

[Rotor F/X]

Thanks all.

And Rotor F/X, I will be at the ROTR and really looking forward to it!

Does anyone know the TBO for the XE3 (sorry don't know the model number of the engine off hand) vs the turbine? ...... And I guess that brings up another question - how many hours has the longest lived XE3 been out there? Longest lived XE?

For the Mosquito we have 500hr TBO and package. Engine overhaul, new blades and every primary rotating (wear part). This kit costs exactly $5000 so that makes your operation reserve $10/hr ... and yoou know exactly what it will be up front.

 

[Arnie Madsen]

Welcome Camroe.

I look forward to your journey investigating the various Mosquito layouts. They have captured my interest as well. I have found Rotor F/X very knowledgeable and helpful. If I purchase , it will most likely be a piston engine which will serve me well on the Canadian Prairies. Anything 900' above Sea level is considered high altitude around here.

Arnie

 

[camroe]

Yeah, pretty used to a little altitude. Calgary is 3500', Salt Lake (where I am now) is 4500'. Mountains around here are 12,000'. Makes for interesting times.

That is why the 9500' HGE (piston) vs. the 9000' HGE(turbine) sort of caught my eye.

Cam

 

[camroe]

Thanks for the TBO times - that's helpful in planning for sure. And it's good to know that the kit to do the TBO is available.

Talking about altitude with Arnie reminded me of a couple of other questions that have been rattling around inside my head.

Is the XE3 a normally aspirated engine or fuel injected? This matters (to me anyway) in finding out how high I can actually go. (i.e. Can I get over a peak or not). Which leads to another performance question - what is the service ceiling? And then can that service ceiling be 'adjusted' with carburetor or injection adjustments?

Cheers

Cam

 

[PW_Plack]

Cam,

Possible misconception - "normally aspirated" does not relate to fuel injection, but refers to an engine which relies solely on ambient atmospheric air pressure to move air into the cylinders during the intake stroke. Turbocharging or supercharging an engine raises pressure above ambient, and makes it no longer normally aspirated.

Both normally aspirated and forced induction engines have been sold both ways, with carbs or FI.

The MZ 301 used in the XE3 uses three Bing 54 carbs, which partially compensate for the changes in air density. So, covering a very wide range of density altitudes still risks being too lean on the ground, or too rich at 10K', for optimum power.

Most of the airports here around SLC range from 4,000' to 5,000' elevation; summer heat can raise density altitudes by 4,500', and a 25ºF winter day can drop them by 1,500. So just to fly the same jetting from Salt Lake International or Brigham City (4,200 MSL) on a winter day (DA as low as 2,700') to West Desert Airpark (4,900' MSL) on a 90ºF day (DA of 8,500') requires a range of about 6,000'.

If you want to fly to Snowbird Resort in the summer...ehhh...better be thinking four-stroke with EFI or a turbine with some reserve!

 

[StanFoster]

Cam- Both the Mosquito and Helicycle will be there at Rotors over the Rockies. If high altitude capability is a priority, I know the turbine powered Helicycle goes over 12000 ftm. Mark Whistler , who happens to be one of the heavier Helicycle pilots has flown his to 12300 feet. He has the most hours and is over 700 hours in his. Stan

 

[PW_Plack]

Cam- Both the Mosquito and Helicycle will be there at Rotors over the Rockies...

...and if local owner Brian Stevens brings his Helicycle up from West Desert Airpark, you can talk to someone with experience flying it in density altitudes as high as 8,000'+.

Remember, too, that whatever the HOGE limit is, the service ceiling (highest altitude at which a 100 FPM climb rate can be maintained) will almost certainly be higher, due to the efficiency added when you add a little airspeed.

 

[camroe]

Thanks for the info, I'm looking forward to spending some time at the ROTR asking all kinds of question. Are there any local builders of the Mosquito around SLC? RotorFX will be there from California but would be nice to talk to someone local.
... and yes the helicycle looks like a sweet little machine too!

 

[Arnie Madsen]

Hope you make it to Rotors over the Rockies or whatever it is called. I would find what you experience and see and hear very interesting Camroe. I find your young approach refreshing.

My (old) approach is getting stale. I can fly . I can manage a modest budget like a Mosquito , I just cannot make the decision yet. A few more personal plans to square away first. I use any available excuse to delay my decision.

However I have minimum concerns about the John Uptigrove engineered Mosquito. So far the safety record tends to support that. By the way John is from Calgary. I think he is more of a behind the scenes guy who tends to lean heavily on proper design as much as possible and lets the helicopter market itself. I do not know him personally and my opinions are just that. My opinions only.

One thing that caught my interest Camroe , is all your questions about altitude performance. Like I said , this is strange language for a Prairie guy like me. In other words I do not have Mountain experience. Don't want it either. Some day I would like to strap out a straight line south to Stan Foster's and go. My altitude considerations would be whether to fly under the US border or over it. just kidding. I will properly tow it across the border, set it up in his dads farm yard , and then drop in to Stans for a visit. There is no way I will ever drive into his yard.

Welcome again to this forum Camroe. Now I would like to get down to some serious business. Last year around Christmas some unnamed anonymous type guys on this forum got sneaky and bought me a block or two of tickets on the New Zealand Worldwide Mosquito draw.

I tried my best to get even with them. It is hard to pin them down. I figured if I pick on a newby like you I could probably convince you to private message me your mailing details and I will get you some tickets on the same draw. Please keep in mind I sure hope to win it. I am just trying to assist getting more tickets allocated to complete the draw. My motive is purely selfish , but hey , I will do what ever it takes to win a free helicopter.

Besides , if I win , it will solve my decision making dilemmas. I have a busy few days coming up , talk later , and I hope someone else can find the link to the draw information.

Arnie.

 

[brett s]

I'm in the same boat you are Arnie - just not the right time for me to buy a helicopter or I'd likely own a Mosquito myself.