A new take on ultra-light gyroplane

ultracruiser41

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2003
Messages
2,630
Location
NC
Aircraft
Cavalon,Snobird+, Ryan PT 22,JetGyro,Titan T51,TwinStar, Radial Rocket Gyro, HummelBird
Total Flight Time
Too many to count
You’re not even worth an argument. You can’t even see when people are trying to help you.
 

WaspAir

Supreme Allied Gyro CFI
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
4,660
Location
Colorado front range
Aircraft
Bell 47G-3B-1 / A&S 18A / Phoebus C, etc.
Total Flight Time
stopped caring at 1000
BarryK Could you give an example of the many before with my attitude? Were they all failures? How is flying a tractor gyro that hard. The master said in his manual that if you can ride a bicycle, you can fly a gyro. I think I will take his word over all that have added their grave cautions on this forum.

I think I will trust Mr. Bensen over the other posters here. Riding the Suzuki Bandit 1200S, takes considerable skill if you ride it to even half its potential.

Please name some failures, please be specific.
Here you can read about 239 wrecked Bensens:


Those are only some that were reported within the U.S. alone. Many (most?) of the old-timers who self-taught the Bensen way tore up at least a set of rotor blades (perhaps more than one set over the course of self-training), put the bits in a pickup truck to take home, and told nobody about it, so it didn't even show up in the records. Some went on to become good pilots while others didn't, and some are dead. And the search results above are only the Bensens, not including many other more recent designs.

We're all glad you enjoy your Suzuki, but it is wholly irrelevant. A gyro is not a flying motorcycle. The skill set is completely different. Vance Breese had the skills to race the AMA circuit professionally and do things in his streamliner at Bonneville that would make your Suzuki look as slow as a moped, but he is one of the strongest advocates here for competent training by a CFI for all pilots, and when he started in gyros, he sought out instruction for himself at great expense and personal inconvenience. You have already dismissed his advice; that's not wise.

How hard can it be? That's a seriously inane question. Hard enough for you to tear up an aircraft, and/or your body, and be another data point for the insurance companies to use against the rest of us.

Your state of mind as reflected in the comments you provided perfectly reflects what the FAA calls a "hazardous attitude". They've seen people kill themselves for too many decades, and have studied what sort of person it happens to. You've already demonstrated three of those attitudes, including what the FAA calls "anti-authority", "invulnerability", and "macho".
 
Last edited:

giro5

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Messages
1,181
Location
Farmington, New Mexico
Aircraft
prev- citabria,AA1b, fun racer
Total Flight Time
400 GA, 50 trike
Ultracruiser41 so you fly a Cavalon with "too many flight hours to count" are you "A statistic just waiting to happen! Another one"

What the hell why not stir the pot
 

C. Beaty

Gold Supporter
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
9,853
Location
Florida
I lived through the carnage era of Bensen gyros, the 1970s, and must say the results have been falsified to suit the prejudices of people with no knowledge of actual results and who generate their own reality.

I served as president of the Sunstate Rotor Club for a ~ 10 year tenure during which time SRC became the largest gyro club in the US and perhaps the entire World. Our monthly newsletters detailed every accident , no matter how insignificant.

First of all, for those individuals who followed the Bensen training syllabus and learned to fly on the end of a rope, there were no injuries or fatalities; in fact, it is next to impossible to swat the rotorblades on the runway; the pull of the rope prevents extreme angles.

By the time the engine has been installed and crowhops begin, the student has become very skilled at rotor control and there is virtually no danger of a rollover since the original Bensen had a free castering nosewheel. Crowhops continue until the student can fly the length of the runway at a height of no more than 10 feet under full control.

And yes, there was a lot of carnage for those people who couldn’t be bothered learning to fly using the Bensen method; as often as not fixed wing pilots. I recall an FAA employee, a fixed wing pilot in the Miami area splattering himself in a gyro.

Ken Brock, not a CFI, probably trained more gyro pilots than 5 CFIs via the Bensen method. Ken used to spend 3 or 4 days per week at ElMirage dry lake training gyro pilots with a 2-place gyro glider, after which time he’s run along side his crow hoping student on a motor bike. Ken had a cabin at ElMirage.
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
16,165
Location
Nipomo,California
Aircraft
Givens Predator
Total Flight Time
2400+ in rotorcraft
The wonder of The Rotary Wing Forum is threads go where they will and seldom stay on the original subject for more than a page and yet somehow there is a lot to learn here.

The use of an aircraft design and actually flying a design is or should be foremost in every aircraft designer’s mind.

What you describe does not sound like my concept of self-training Chuck.

Most people’s idea of self-training is training without assistance.

Welder wants to just hop in and go fly using his motorcycle and ultralight fixed wing as a knowledge basis and Igor Bensen as the authority who said it would work.

How do you think that is going to work out Chuck? Do you really believe he is going to follow each step in the book?

It reads to me that these people got training from you, your club and Ken Brock.

The people who didn’t have the patience to follow directions and support of people like you, your club members and Ken Brock didn’t do so well.

I know Ken felt it was typical to go through several sets of blades learning to fly.

I don’t know anyone at this time that is willing to do all that work and take on all that liability for no compensation.

I recently spoke to a flight instructor who used to do what you describe and he has found people are not willing to pay enough to make it practical to do it for a living.

Most of the full time flight instructors I know do not make much money after expenses.

I am fortunate that my software company supports me so I can afford to have a hobby business.

People wonder why there are so few gyroplane CFIs and why they have to travel so far to get good flight instruction.
 

C. Beaty

Gold Supporter
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
9,853
Location
Florida
A few exceptional people jump in a gyro and become instant aces, Vance, but it’s not often.

Two Floridians come to mind; Carl Hinshaw, proprietor of a swanky restaurant in Lake Wales and a WW2 Mustang pilot, the first person that I ever saw flying a gyro upside down and Gary Yanson, winner of every gyro award such as man and machine.


Both are now deceased from causes unrelated to gyros.
 

Welder

Newbie
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Messages
58
Location
Grand Rivers, Ky
JonSu

Thank you for the very detailed information update on your design. If you have a dimensioned drawing for the tail wheel version it would be extremely helpful.

I would like to apologize for this mis- direction of your thread, I am as much to blame as anyone.


I think it is a great design and I would like to see the sky filled with SkyRotors.
 

JonSu

Junior Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2018
Messages
82
Location
Russia Moscow region
3D Model
The upgrade included:
1. Reducing the size and configuration of the main frame.
2. The control of the main rotor has been changed. It has become easier.
3. An elastic mast mount was used to compensate for semi-periodic vibrations.
 

Jazzenjohn

Gold Supporter
Joined
Oct 9, 2004
Messages
2,819
Location
Milan Mich.
Aircraft
Gyrobee, My design
Total Flight Time
350
I hope someone tries out that yoke control system JonSu, it looks like an interesting design!
 

Welder

Newbie
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Messages
58
Location
Grand Rivers, Ky
Would anyone happen to know where I can find for sale the push, pull cable JonSu has depicted? Would an aluminum tube bolted to an offset plate riveted to the steering wheel be a simpler option.
I am not trying to redesign this control, just trying to get the job done.
I am not an aircraft designer in case I can't find this cable, I don't want that to stop progress. The initial search proved it can be quite a search for this specific cable.
Ben
 

Welder

Newbie
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Messages
58
Location
Grand Rivers, Ky
1162mm length, 45 3/4 in. I don't know if the tube would receive enough force to buckle or not. one could split in half the pushrod length with a specrical bearing. sorry for the spelling, to lazy to look it up
 

Welder

Newbie
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Messages
58
Location
Grand Rivers, Ky
Custom Control Cables located in Louisiana has a suitable control cable.
They have push pull capabilities up to 500lbs push 1000lb pull.
 

skyguynca

Gold Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2004
Messages
1,160
Location
Acampo, CA
Aircraft
depends on what I have sold recently
Total Flight Time
5000+
You gyro design is great and I am interested in building it. Is it possible for you to send the files in a solidworks format or in a universal x_t parasolid format so I can open and measure to make parts? eDrawings does not allow that.

Thanks
David M
San Jose, CA
 
Top