Dragonwings Vrs. Sportcopter Results!

Thanks Ron,
I am glad to see that you are able to see the good in both sets of blades and give your un-biased opinion. I will run the paint thing by Dad when he gets back. In the past he has expressed the opinion that painting blades is not an option, however if he had enough customers that wanted them that way he may change his mind. The one thing I can say about keeping polished blades looking good allows you to keep a good eye on you blades,and if there is a problem it is spoted early. Painted blades would allow one to pay less attention to the blades. Also I don't care if they are painted or polished they should be handled and cleaned before each days session. Bugs are murder on blades.
 
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Mike I think they are both good blades and both have a few advantages over the other making it almost a wash in the end. Will I run out to buy a set of Sportcopter blades for my gyro now? No.



But I can always borrow Barrys! :)
 
Ron,
I'll have to see if I can find my manual. How many teeth does your ring gear have? That
is the variable needed to scale the tach.
Alan
 
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Paint vs

Paint vs

Mike, Your dad is right and while white on the blades is nice it will never last forever. I agree that careful attention to blades is paramount to safe operation. There is no such thing as maintainance free in the experimental world.

If there was some clear coating or cooking spray or something that would make the bug guts come off a lot easier then it might be worth looking into.


Ron, If your rotor rpm was considerably higher on the Sport rotors would that not account for float time at the slow end ?

THats a matter of blade pitch, rotor inertia and aero drag. I would base float on same rotor rpm and then suggest that the sports had more on the landing endin of things.

2 cents
 
Johnathan,
I honestly think the higher RPM is the Magic that makes the Sport Rotors what they are. I believe that if you were to slow them down to same RPM they would probably shake just as much if not more.
 
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MIke B, Your dad makes great blades, no doubt. Many people that own them like them very much. I have not flown Dragon Wings before, so I can not say one is better than any others. However you are far from unbiased in your opinions. In your statements Dragon Wings are ALWAYS better than some other Company's blades, no matter what they are up against. Have you flown all the different brands that you find somehow inferior? Can you give us all the test data you have accumulated to come up with your results? Until you can provide all the data to prove that, you might want to mention the "minor" fact that you really have not compared all the possible blade combinations .There are several good blade manufactures out there, Dragon Wings being one of them. Each type has certain advantages and disadvantages. To say that the paint is going to come off, well thats just bullsh*t. I have 75 hours on my blades, and they are not missing any paint whatsoever. No dings, scrapes,chips, nothing. When painting any object, a good paint job is always reliant upon the prep work. Don't you think that others' can be and are as careful as your dad's Company? You ever see how the other Companies make blades and what pains they take to make their blades right? Of course not. It is alot more work to prep and paint blades correctly, than just buff and polish bare aluminum. They did this because many customers wanted them this way. They are so much easier to keep clean. I will never own another set of bare metal blades again....period. Paint has come along ways in durability since your dad started in the business, he may want to investigate some of those options.


Scott Heger Laguna Niguel, Ca N86SH
 
Different but same

Different but same

The size of the blades and the overall shape is prob the same. However the weight and bending / flex and a whole lot of other factors come into play when trying to compare blades. I do think that the hub bar for the dw's could use some refinement for adjustments it just looks too simple to me and the blade straps could use some more material in my opinion but i can say that I have flown them on the 2 pl air command and I would not change a thing how they fly on that machine with that setup. I dont think they could be improved upon. Great lift, float, flare, smooth. And remember I am a BIG guy, so they got a workout.

Jonathan
 
I don't think Sportcopter " paints " the blades. I think they coat them with some special Epoxy coating. I can say I have banged Barrys blades into the hangar and scraped them on the gravel rock in my hangar and generally gave them hell and they still look just as nice as the day they came out of the crate.

I would pay a little extra to have this coating on Dragonwings if it was offered.
 
MikeBoyette said:
…I honestly think the higher RPM is the Magic that makes the Sport Rotors what they are…
Click to expand...

There is no magic, Mike. I am sure you know all that, but if the blades are turning faster it is because they create less lift at a given RPM. The blades turn as fast as they need to support the weight that they carry. Generally speaking, same length-faster turning blades are less efficient because the have more drag.

Faster-turning blades require less undersling. If your teeter towers don't have enough undersling, you get 2-per-rev shake. Mount faster turning blades (i.e. shorter or less efficient ones), and the 2-per goes away.

As we all know, there are other causes for stick shake, like static and dynamic balance and tracking, but they don't go away with RRPM. Ron, are you using the highest hole in the teeter block for your teeter bolt?

Question - are the Dragon Wings and Sport Copter blades constructed the same way? I know they use different airfoils and finish etc. but, other than that, are the spar/skins/glue/end-weight construction technique identical?

Udi-
 
The dragon wings have slightly less shake in the top hole on the teeter towers. I tried the lower bottom hole and it was like I said slightly more shake.

The Sportcopter blades only allow you to use the bottom hole in the towers - Standard Bensen Height -

the Sportcopter blades also have the twist for blade pitch done directly in the hubbar, where as Dragon wings have their twist in the blade itself.

I lost 5 MPH in top speed wide open throttle with the sportcopters but the indicted RRPM was the same on both blades I believe. But the Sportcopters seemed to allow me a faster cruise speed at a given throttle setting in the 5500-6000 RPM range.
 
Thanks Udi,
I was being a smart A** when I used the "magic" word. I understand all of that. The mentality we are dealing with is the same as people buying a Caddilac pick up truck as aposed to a Chevy. It costs more and has more bells and whistles so it has to be better.
Scott, I have been involved with gyro's since I was in diapers. I am now 32 about to be 33 in September. I have never flown another set of blades. I am biased. I say this I challenge you to try a set of DW and tell us what you think. I have seen many people come back from flying DW for the first time and I can count on one hand the ones who were not all smiles.
 
Imron Paint

Imron Paint

I think Jim Vanek is using Imron paint. It is what they use to paint jetliners. It sticks at 5-600 mph. it will also kill you quick if you handle it without professional air breathing equipment.
 
Mike B, you want to send a set to California, I'll be happy to try them. Each blade has some trade off. I have given up some inital spin up performance(from 25X7 to 25X8), and a slight bit of smoothness, for forgiving / floating heavier blades that are low maintance and give better "cruise" . Your Dad is a very important part of the industry, as few good blade makers exist, I hope he and you prosper well. Just don't close your eyes to the fact that just because others do it a different way, it is not necessarly inferior, they just might be better and worse in some ways.

Scott Heger, Laguna Niguel, Ca N86SH
 
Due to damaging our original McCutchens, we switched to Dragon Wings. After the initial scare of flying them the first time(totally different feel from McCutchens, which Ernie duly warned me about), I love them.

Based on Ron's testing, the two brands of blades seem to be pretty close in performance. Speaking personally only here, I would be hard-pressed to look at anything else to fly. The price was real reasonable, delivered in less than two weeks, fly them right out of the box, and Ernie has been more than patient with me when I called with questions regarding some of the things I have managed to do with my blades.

The which-blade-is-better debate seems to boil down to a matter of personal opinion, and to some extent, how well your wallet is padded.

Ernie will have my business unless we switch to a heavy 2-place.
 
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Scott,
Come to ROC, BD's or next years national fly-in and introduce yourself to either my Dad or me(if I am there) and we'd be glad to let you try a set. As for my Bias understand this I am not or have I ever been a financial beneficiary of my Father and Stepmother's company. I am biased because, unlike Jim who got investors to back him and bought all kinds of expensive machinery, my Family has made Rotor Flight Dynamics Inc. what it is by themselves. This of course includes family friends such as Chuck Beaty, Dick DeGraw, Llyod poston, Charlie Presnell, And many more. My Dad had a dream when started manufacturing rotorblades over 14 years ago to be the best. With over 1200 sets of blades since then I think he's made it. Also maybe Chuck or Udi can elibortate as to why DW's are more efficient. My Dad did not simply copy another brand of blades and make them pretty. He made something totally new to the gyro blade industry. And as Forest Gump would say "That's all I'm gonna say bout that".
 
Isn't it great to have two high-quality choices in rotorblades, actual differences in features between them, and a worldwide forum to discuss it all? I'm laughing, because many product categories have internet forums in which users are trying to out-do each other with stories of how the one they chose is worse!

How tough is that paint? Mike, didn't you guys dissect a broken set of 30-foot Sport Rotors last year? I believe Chuck B. said he had to soak them overnight in solvent to get through the paint, and declared the workmanship "first rate."

I think these are both great products. I like the idea of accountability from a manufacturer when I have a problem, so if I bought a Dominator, I'd want Dragon Wings, and if I bought a Sport Copter, I'd get Sport Rotors. If I compiled the ten most exasperated moments in my life, eight of them would be occasions when manufacturers (or phone and internet companies) have blamed problems on another vendor on the project. If I have unsatisfactory performance, it's worth a few bucks in at purchase time to skip the whole finger-pointing stage.

Now, if I built an Air Command or Brock machine, hmmm...
 
Mike Boyette, do you know what kind of cleaner and polish your Dad uses or recommends for aluminum blades?
 
randy
what kind of pitch do you have on that subie motor and what kind of rpms do ya get? thanks ben
 
Paint

Paint

I used to paint sailboats down in the Florida Keys with Imron. It is magic stuff but very fatal if you breathe it. Once it cures pretty much nothing will scratch it. We could remove the bumpers from the side of a boat when tied up at a pier and let it grind away with nary a scratch.
It is available from marine supply stores and is not cheap but is not difficult to work with and gives a slick finish.
 
ben said:
randy
what kind of pitch do you have on that subie motor and what kind of rpms do ya get? thanks ben
Click to expand...

I didn't set it up, Ernie Boyette did so he would be the expert to ask. Sorry.
 
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