Straight down?

G

gilgsn

Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Messages
312
Location
France, near Lille.
Total Flight Time
650
Hello,

I am new at this, so please bear with me.. There is one maneuver I saw on video that I would like to understand better. Not that I want to try it.. I flew on a gyro only once as a passenger, and I have just received my first 2x2 tubing along with a few parts.. I just would like to learn about the gyro operating envelope, what is normal, and what is "pushing it."

How can a gyro descend seemingly nose pointed straight down while maintaining rotor RPMs in a safe zone? What would be an average safe glide path power off, going straight or spiraling down?

Do gyro pilots use side-slips like with fixed-wing aircrafts. Would there be any advantage to that to steepen an approach, or would the difference in drag be insignificant? I guess a vertical descent could be used..

What is the best way to go down fast safely?

Thank you very much :)

Gil.
 
Your talking about a manuver John Stevens coined the " Death Spiral ".... I am renaming it the " Twist and Shout "

The nose of the gyro is straight down, but the gyro is also in a turn, hence the spiral decent. The rotors stay well loaded, but it is a advanced manuver only for very experienced pilots to try.
 
I wondered that too Gil...but then I noticed a video made a few month ago that Ron was in a spiral....very much like a horizonal barrel roll...only tipped down vertical. It looks so cool.....
 
Thanks for the explanation! I'm old enough to NOT try something called the "Death Spiral," LOL! So, is the stick held all the way back?

Gil.
 
gilgsn said:
Thanks for the explanation! I'm old enough to NOT try something called the "Death Spiral," LOL! So, is the stick held all the way back?

Gil.
Click to expand...
Gil,when I rode thru it, the nose never came up,so I don't know about back stick, it starts from level flight at high speed and happens fast. not sure of the control inputs, but the only time the nose was pulled up was the recovery.

it is a wild ride for sure. it is a positive G maneuver all the way thru.
 
Hi Gil, I think you are thinking of a FW spin. The wing is stalled, "stick held all the way back", and rudder is kicked in to make the plane spin.
The rotor will fly at any angle as long as it is loaded at the hub.
The spiral keeps the rotor loaded while it seemingly falls straight down.
 
Last edited:
gilgsn said:
Do gyro pilots use side-slips like with fixed-wing aircrafts. Would there be any advantage to that to steepen an approach, or would the difference in drag be insignificant? I guess a vertical descent could be used..

What is the best way to go down fast safely?
Click to expand...

Fixed wing pilots sometimes use slips to increase drag and produce a higher descent rate, because their structures are designed to produce low drag at high speeds and their natural glide path in coordinated flight is relatively flat.

In a gyro, getting down is very rarely much of a problem. Autorotation is a high-drag way of making lift and the structures on most gyros are not exactly wind tunnel champions. With power off, they come down quite nicely, and from my perspective as both a glider and gyro CFI, like bricks. The glide angle, for anybody who is used to sailplanes, is outrageously steep, and can be made vertical if desired.

I've struggled to climb in high density altitude conditions in a gyro. I've even struggled to get down in a high performance sailplane when emerging cu-nimbs were sucking me upward despite full spoilers and yellow-arc speeds. But I've never had to struggle to get down in a gyro. They descend really, really well.
 
Death Spiral is a dramatic name for what is essentially a horizontal barrel roll with gravity working for you. Ron is more than just a good pilot. He is a born promoter of all the sports he loves.
When I heard the name change, I was impressed by it as much as Ron’s flying as we are all trying to change our public image. The new name expresses the joy of rotorcraft flight without the whole Death thing.
 
animal said:
Gil,when I rode thru it, the nose never came up,so I don't know about back stick, it starts from level flight at high speed and happens fast. not sure of the control inputs, but the only time the nose was pulled up was the recovery.

it is a wild ride for sure. it is a positive G maneuver all the way thru.
Click to expand...

Entry speed is fairly low 20mph-ish, makes it much easier. rrpm is good and high which means the rotor is nice and happy. its fairly straightforward, but its no hangover cure!
 
If you watch this, you can see at about 5:20 mark I go into the " Twist and Shout " straight down manuver. You can hear the blades load up and increase in speed.

Before the TS manuver I was in a vertical decent and did a rudder spin holding the nose level with the horizon, kinda like a gyro version of a flat spin....

I will put out this warning, when I first started doing this manuver ( the Death Spiral ) some of the old timers were saying it was a dangerous manuver. When pressed for why it was dangerous, I never got a knowledgeable anwser, but they still claimed it is dangerous. So try em at your own risk..... I can say that in my two place I have full right rudder, and I go HARD to the right on the cyclic, so hard that I have to use both hands, so if nothing else it certainly puts a load on the control system.

YouTube - Ron Awad flying his Dominator gyroplane at Bensen Days 2010
 
RotoPlane said:
This is the one that gets me wondering how the blades stay on ;).
YouTube - Wrens 2008 -- Ron Awad U-Turn Landing
Click to expand...

Hell if I know..... Just was flying downwind at about 90 mph indicated and chop power and bank her around real hard, loads up the rotors nicely for a gentle touchdown. If I remember right, Scott Lewis and Ernie Boyette were saying I couldn't do this, and Scott radio'ed me while I was flying to ask me to try it. Took a few attempts to get a feel for how fast I needed to enter it and how hard to bank it over but as you can see, it was no problem
 
what I have always wondered about is how many G's the blades and hub bar are designed to take.

would be interesting to have a G meter on the Gyro and see how many Ron pulls in some of his flights.

the U turn just demos trading airspeed for rotor energy.load the rotors and get more blade r.p.m. and lift.
very impressive demo for sure. Ron is truely the master of his machine.
 
Hell if you know? Hell if you Knowww? Did it occur to you Ron….for even just a second....that just perhaps, maybe, they were angry with you that day? ;).
 
RotoPlane said:
Hell if you know? Hell if you Knowww? Did it occur to you Ron….for even just a second....that just perhaps, maybe, they were angry with you that day? ;).
Click to expand...

Now that's funny!!
 
animal said:
what I have always wondered about is how many G's the blades and hub bar are designed to take.

would be interesting to have a G meter on the Gyro and see how many Ron pulls in some of his flights.

the U turn just demos trading airspeed for rotor energy.load the rotors and get more blade r.p.m. and lift.
very impressive demo for sure. Ron is truely the master of his machine.
Click to expand...

Just by my seat of the pants meter, I've never pulled 2 g's in a gyro, and I have done high speed u-turns, 90-degree banks wide open throttle, maneuvers that in a FW would have you pinned to your seat, grunting.
I think the rotors just slip thru, limiting g forces.
I think there are more destructive forces in play just flying straight and level.
The beating they take as they rotate is enough to keep me wondering how they stay together.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Henry_GyroLife
Gyroplane take off technique
4 5 6
Replies
100
Views
7K
PJB
P
L
Glassy Water Landing in a Gyro?
2
Replies
33
Views
1K
GyrOZprey
GyrOZprey
Gyro-nut
Calling all bookworms... :)
Replies
7
Views
679
Gyro-nut
Gyro-nut
samouced
Crawl to run 10 Exercise plan. Found IT! (edit...gyro flown!)
Replies
8
Views
849
Mayfield
Mayfield
C
Shipping Help
Replies
8
Views
497
hakester
H
Top