Commercial Uses For Autogyro

C

Carl_s

Newbie
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Messages
4
Location
British Columbia
Hi everyone,

I am trying to devise a list of commercial applications for an autogyro. Please feel free to help me out and post any that you have in mind.

- Aerial photography
- Ariel Survey
- Sightseeing
- Pipeline Inspection
- With floats perhaps its possible to do fishing trips to remote lakes?
- I hear some police forces around the world use Autogyros?

What ideas do you have?
 
Lots of applications...many problems with the concept

Lots of applications...many problems with the concept

There are many other application posiblities. However with a serious lack of companies willing to expend the hundreds of thousands of dollars to certify a gyro for commercial use, there are few options. I don't know all that is required to certify an aircraft for commercial use, but I am told it is extensive and expensive.

In modern times the closest that I am aware of was the Hawk 4 by Groen Brothers. However most people know they have been not producing vertually anything for several years. I think that you might also soon see Carter Copter do something. But investing (I am told $5 to 10 Million) that kind of money to get a gyro certified is quite a lot of money in today's turbulant ecconomic times. I am not aware of any other companies that might be going that direction...but I have been wrong before.

Regarding law enforcement. I have been working on a proposal to use a gyro in law enforcement for nearly 3 years. They (I) could use a non-certified gyro under the public use exception. However I am having trouble with acceptance from the insurance people (risk managers) accepting a non-certified aircraft. If you bring into the conversation of experimental...thy go crazy and shut it down immediatly.

I do find it quite an interesting discussion considering that there are agencies using power parachutes, weight shift powered gliders (trikes) and even one agency in Florida using a backpack powered parachute.

There may be more flexiblity if slsa gyros are ever approved by the FAA. It has been tied up in the FAA red tape just for elsa gyros for over 2 years and God only knows how much longer that will take.

However I think you will see a gyro flying in a police capacity in Texas very soon. I can not conferm this because I don't know the status but it may be close.

In europe they are flying gyros for the German Politzi (sp). And have had very favorable reports.

Other uses include:
Power line inspections
Farm Operations (like crop and cattle observations)

The list goes on...only time will tell. As we are seeing more and more factory produced gyros like the Magni, Auto-Gyro maybe we will see some more flexilbity on the FAA.

I know he's busy getting ready for Oshkosh and other stuff, but hopefully Paul Plack will weigh in here as he is very knowledgable and could give some good insight.
Stay safe.
 
Reforestation (fire, growth regularity, invasions, teft)
Agrobusiness (crop dusting, fertilization, sowing)
Border Patrol, Beach patrol, road patrol, police patrol.
It seems the problem is regulations, not enough room for usage.
Experimental not for hire rule can be circumvented if the owner is PIC.
Build it . . .and they will come!
Heron
 
While I was towing banners with an ultralight on the French Coast, I was also taking pictures of the beaches for the office of tourism to count tourists.. The photos had to overlap.. I had a datestamp back on my Nikon F3. A poor student on a summer job then projected the slides on a screen and counted people.. Off season, there was a demand for photography... With a gyroscope stabilized camera, I could have done much more.. I also almost got a contract with the same tourism office to film coastal towns in the winter with an infrared camera to count how many houses were heated and how many were not.. In the end, they didn't have the budget.. My ex ultralight instructor was often taking photos with a Pentax 6x7, and could beat the prices of any regular aircraft operators, especially helicopters.
I also used to give rides from an entertainment park adjacent to the airport...

Too bad experimentals can't be used for work in the U.S... Instruction and instructional rides might be your ticket. Photography, well, if you invoice for the photos, and not the flight time, who knows, that might be borderline legal..

Gil.
 
Carl, what are the CAA regulations for using an experimental aircraft for commercial use. Like stated before. The FAA does not allow commercial operations with experimental aircraft.
 
§ 21.25 Issue of type certificate: Restricted category aircraft.
top
(a) An applicant is entitled to a type certificate for an aircraft in the restricted category for special purpose operations if he shows compliance with the applicable noise requirements of Part 36 of this chapter, and if he shows that no feature or characteristic of the aircraft makes it unsafe when it is operated under the limitations prescribed for its intended use, and that the aircraft—

(1) Meets the airworthiness requirements of an aircraft category except those requirements that the Administrator finds inappropriate for the special purpose for which the aircraft is to be used; or

(2) Is of a type that has been manufactured in accordance with the requirements of and accepted for use by, an Armed Force of the United States and has been later modified for a special purpose.

(b) For the purposes of this section, “special purpose operations” includes—

(1) Agricultural (spraying, dusting, and seeding, and livestock and predatory animal control);

(2) Forest and wildlife conservation;

(3) Aerial surveying (photography, mapping, and oil and mineral exploration);

(4) Patrolling (pipelines, power lines, and canals);

(5) Weather control (cloud seeding);

(6) Aerial advertising (skywriting, banner towing, airborne signs and public address systems); and

(7) Any other operation specified by the Administrator.

[Doc. No. 5085, 29 FR 14564, Oct. 24, 1964, as amended by Amdt. 21–42, 40 FR 1033, Jan. 6, 1975]
 
I don't consider myself "very knowledgeable" on this, but I'll make my best observation.

Aerial photography from an experimental aircraft in the US appears to be in a grey area. If the photos were taken incidental to the recreational or educational use of the aircraft, and you later compile them into a coffee table book, that is apparently OK. (It's been done.) If you fly for the purpose of creating the coffee table book, you may be in trouble. If you advertise aerial photography services using a gyro, expect a letter!

We had a fatal crash here a couple weeks ago involving a banner pilot who apparently got slow and nose-high, and by the time he released the banner, he was to slow, stalled and spun in. It's hard to imagine a gyro would not be safer in such an application, if the issues involved in deploying the banner safely could be resolved.

Can you imagine how long people would stare at a banner being towed by an open-frame single-place? They'd even be alerted to look up by the noise of a Mac 90!

There is Special Airworthiness Certificate available in which you could probably register a gyro for banner towing. It's Experimental / Research & Development:

...to conduct aircraft operations as a matter of research or to determine if an idea warrants further development. Typical uses for this certificate include new equipment installations, operating techniques, or new uses for aircraft.

My suspicion is that gyroplanes would quickly establish themselves as a safe alternative for banner towing, provided they were designed to preclude the possibility of the banner getting into the rotor. But there wouldn't be anyplace to go from there. The FAA won't keep authorizing Exp/R&D gyros to everyone who wants to tow banners, the market is too small to make it worth certificating a new type, and the J-2 and 18A probably aren't good candidates.

$400-500 million is pretty typical to get a new aircraft through FAA certification these days. If you thought you could sell a thousand of them, that would add $400-500K to the price of each machine.
 
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Well, one extragood use for a gyro would be for cruisin the beach along the Lake Michigan shoreline at this time of year. Oops. MJD.
 
I realize this is quite an old thread. I ran across it while doing some research on this exact topic and hope I can get some questions answered here.

@Brent_Brown
You referenced § 21.25 above. Are you suggesting that it is plausible for Autogyro aircraft to be operated in the restricted category for commercial operations? Assuming that one can prove to the FAA that "no feature or characteristic of the aircraft makes it unsafe when it is operated under the limitations prescribed for its intended use, and that the aircraft... Meets the airworthiness requirements of an aircraft category except those requirements that the Administrator finds inappropriate for the special purpose for which the aircraft is to be used."

@Huron
You mentioned "Experimental not for hire rule can be circumvented if the owner is PIC." Is this for the US? If so what CFR references this? I am very curious.

Thanks in advance for your responses!
 
Michael_S said:
I realize this is quite an old thread. I ran across it while doing some research on this exact topic and hope I can get some questions answered here.

@Brent_Brown
You referenced § 21.25 above. Are you suggesting that it is plausible for Autogyro aircraft to be operated in the restricted category for commercial operations? Assuming that one can prove to the FAA that "no feature or characteristic of the aircraft makes it unsafe when it is operated under the limitations prescribed for its intended use, and that the aircraft... Meets the airworthiness requirements of an aircraft category except those requirements that the Administrator finds inappropriate for the special purpose for which the aircraft is to be used."

@Huron
You mentioned "Experimental not for hire rule can be circumvented if the owner is PIC." Is this for the US? If so what CFR references this? I am very curious.

Thanks in advance for your responses!
Click to expand...

Hi, Micheal

Section 21.25 refers to aircraft with a Type Certificate. There are all kinds of commercial operations permitted for Type-Certified aircraft and not only in the Restricted category.
 
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GOVERNMENT USE,PUBLIC SERVICE REQUIRES NO CERTIFICATE AT ALL,
FEPP Dept of Agraculture, Exmilitary & Exprrimental/ultra light.

If it's public use it's open game.
 
Public Use Exception

Public Use Exception

Helios said:
Hillberg,

Would that include Search and Rescue?♦

Gene
Click to expand...

I would use caution if you are gonna try to go with the Public Use Exception. From what I have read and researched. It has to be for a minimum of 90 consecutive days. So based on that, you can't, for example, take your experimental home built, go use it under the Public Use for a day and then back to EAB.

If there is no "compensation" and you are operating within the limits of your aircrafts experimental certification, I believe there is no violation.

This is at best, a very tricky area. The right FSDO could either make a persons life a living hell, or make it easy.

Good luck just my 2 cents!!!
 
Go for it - this guy provides live aerial TV pictures of German football ( soocer ) matches - quality certified gyro, 5 axis gyro-stabilised camera - a good earner.

Commercial Uses For Autogyro




Go earn some money - more about him here



https://www.gyrocopter-cam.com/



The World's your oyster.


Steve
 
A government agency can use any vehicle it needs,Downey PD Had ultra lights, Ventura had FEPP & Exmilitary, Lots of noncertified contract use in 137(AG work), It deals with the protocals in the agency charter,Even the FSDOs have limited coverage, Compensation is such a gray area with Interagengy charges, For rescue work the county will charge a rescue to the persons home county, pilots & crews are "public service employees" so all work is under the covering agency, It's all a who you know racket. He who has the gold makes the rules & then ignore the same rules.
 
Run a flight school, offer trial lessons local tourist flights too - make money


When you come for a trial flight with The Gyrocopter Experience - Salisbury:

you will receive a briefing beforehand about the flight
you will get the opportunity to handle the controls yourself
we will fly a number of manoeuvers, typically covering fast flight, slow flight, hovering, vertical descents, tight turns, take-off and landing (with a bit of normal "just flying around" too!) to show you the capabilities of a gyro
or if you want we can just go sightseeing
we will tailor the content of the flight to suit you and do the things you want to do


https://www.gyrocopterexperience.com/salisbury




Same thing in Germany


https://www.regiondo.com/gyrocopter-rundflug-uber-lubeck-travemunde-und-trave


same in France - it's a business


https://www.normandie-tourisme.fr/F...N0011/AVRANCHES/fiche-N0011NORM00000CE-2.html



more gyro scenic rides this time in New Zealand - beautiful - have a certified gyro have a CFI licence so make money

https://www.gyrate.co.nz/trial_flights.html



Steve
 
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