Tim Verroi demos his G-force landing gear at Bensen Days 2008

DMorris,

Stop thinking about it. Do the Monarch thing!!! You will never regret it....NEVER!!!!' look lots of people can Dominate but not everybody can become a Butterfly....hehehehe. It is by my best estimation the most fun I've ever experienced in Gyro flight for fun. It has brought back to me the original JOY i first experience with gyro flight back in 1995. Uforic thats what it is. Stable, Strong, Forgiving, Fun and most of all USABLE!!!!!! Whether it impresses your friends or saves your but let it do something for you!!



Friendly,

Your welcome for the imput. I to strapped mine up after almost flipping that baby but it was because I scared the fool out of myself not to learn to fly it that way first. Once I regained the nerve I unstrapped and went at it again. Its the greatest thing since slice bread!!!! I want to be buried with my Butterfly. GFLG or Bust!!!!
 
When someone jarr up we loose!
I would like to see Ron flying the Golden and if we did not have that problem at BD07 he would, all opinions matter to me and I know Ron is not as hard headed as it seems here on the forum with his Cyber Persona.
Tim V. has done it and liked it so what is wrong with that? I honestly believe all that can experience the G-Force will keep it and once changed to Monarch, the Dominator will become second best.
Some like Ferrari some like Lamborghini but the first is a better machine.
Been always opinionated Ron some times come out as negative, he is just exercising his right to free speech and needs no punishment for it.
He will debate untill his lips bleed and will take more time to aknowledege the differences and the reasons for having them.
All gyros will have active suspension in short time, along with short take offs and low noise levels those machines will be very neighborhood friendly and could acomplish the door-to-door task.
But the "penguin people" will always be present! (those who walk away moving their heads side to side) for those we should still be flying Bensens or they machine of choice.
Heron
 
Monarch AT GFLG Suspension. (used to be known as Landing Gear.)

Monarch AT GFLG Suspension. (used to be known as Landing Gear.)

GyroRon said:
Mitch, I think the GFLG may could have helped him if he had cut power and flared to a zero airspeed stop.... and then drop to a landing. From his description it sounded like he never really " Landed " but instead he touched down while in a turn and with significant forward ground speed. In this case most if not all gyros are going to flip over. Dominators do not tolerate landing with much forward speed on rough surfaces and they absolutely will not tolerate landing cross controlled or uncorrordinated.

Looking at the new version of the GFLG, I guess you could say it isn't totally a gimmick. It is a true suspension and it does offer some advantages in certain landing scenerios. It is a cool landing gear and like I said I believe it is probably the best suspension offering on the market right now.
Click to expand...

He turned Ron because he felt he had no other option. GFLG would give him that other option....no Gimmick there!
Your second paragraph is confusing to me are you saying:

GFLG IS THE BEST SUSPENSION ON THE MARKET RIGHT NOW :peace::peace::peace:AND SO IT'S NOT TOTALLY A GIMMICK!

It's either a gimmick or its not! :boink:

Bit like digging the proverbial hole deeper and deeper....:bored:

Read Tim's last post and tell me again why you or I should not draw some conclusions here.........remember I am not and do not bag the Dominator (you seem to do that well enough on your own).Dominators " Stop and drop " gear claims are a joke. Most people run their Dominators shocks with too much PSI and the shocks are too stiff to absorb a stop and drop from more than a foot or so. Anything higher and the Dominator could bend or break. and then The Dominators suspension system is not a Gimmick in my opinion.

I am a Spiderman wannabe, do you actually read all of my posts.

I let you fly my Monarch next year Ron when I have finished my upgrades. Yes butterfly has shock suspension.

Yes, the Early gyros did have gear simular in function to the GFLG.... Blood gimmicky crap eh Ron;) Cierva need his head read! What was he doing putting gimmicky crap on the very first autogiros. It's just not cricket!:boom:

Fly safe.

Mitch.
 
If Robert had done what he should have done he would have flared to a stop while still straight. He did not need GFLG to be able to do that and do it without damage. If there was a strong chance of landing in a ditch with landing straight, GFLG would have not faired any better than a straight axle like on a Bensen. You would know this if you personally had more experience Mitch.... and that is not a dig at you, that is a simple fact.

And yes, as far as a suspension goes, sure the GFLG seems to offer the best suspension, as in you get a suspension along with the stop and drop ability to use if you really needed it.

What makes it still somewhat of a gimmick in my book is that the people I see flying it are using it in a gimmicky way. Same as say a Jump takeoff gyro like the Gyrhino.... It is just as complex as a helicopter and has no real advantage over a helicopter, It is a gyro that can jump into the air, which is more or less a gimmick.

Some cars these days come with airconditioned glove boxes, or power folding rear seats, and so on.... all are gimmicks, things that are nice but not really needed.

The GFLG has some safety advantages in certain times so I would say it is less of a gimmick than a chilled glovebox

When Dominators first came to the market, 90 percent of the gyros out there had totally rigid gear. If you came to a stop and dropped in a Bensen, it would stress the tubing and either right then or sometime later the axle would fail, causing a tore up gyro in the process. RFD used a suspension with a few inches of travel and set up properly, you could flare a foot or two high and drop it in without a problem. But the fact remains that most Dominator pilots over inflate their shocks and there is little give in them to safely do a stop and drop from more than a foot high. Still a advantage over a rigid axle gyro, or even one with the rubber donut suspension, but nothing like what GFLG offers.

What the Dominator suspension does offer is a very smooth ride on the ground. Especially on a semi rough grass strip. Trying to takeoff in a Bensen or Aircommand, then trying to takeoff in a Dominator on the same strip is like the difference between driving a stiffly sprung commercial truck and a luxury car such as a Lexus or Benz.

I challenge you to find a commecially produced sport gyro that has as smooth of a ride as a Dominator. I know you won't find one. The smooth ride is what the Dominator gear is all about, not stop and drop landings. Because of this I believe it is not a gimmick. The smooth ride allows you to operate the gyro out of fields and rough strips that other gyros would not be able to operate out of. Ask Scott Essex about the difference flying a Dominator makes on his strip if you want to

Aren't you a little too big ( weight and girth wise ) to be Spiderman? :)

The one thing you have said that I think is most interesting is about the early gyros, never really thought about it too much, but your right, they did appear to have gear designed for a stop and drop type landing. I wonder if this came about because the earliest gyros had pitch control via elevators and at slow airspeeds they might have lost some pitch control authority, and the soft gear kept the gyro from being destroyed. I have a model RC gyro with pitch controlled via elevator and the landing gear really takes a pounding when you don't land it just perfect.
 
Ron

Everyone I have spoken to about this statement reckons it's just plain wrong.

If Robert had done what he should have done he would have flared to a stop while still straight. He did not need GFLG to be able to do that and do it without damage. If there was a strong chance of landing in a ditch with landing straight, GFLG would have not faired any better than a straight axle like on a Bensen. You would know this if you personally had more experience Mitch.... and that is not a dig at you, that is a simple fact.

The strong chance of landing in the ditch could have been negated with GFLG by hauling back and doing a high flare and dropin long before getting to the ditch. You cant do that in a non GFLG equipped gyro.

You would know this if you personally had more experience Mitch.... and that is not a dig at you, that is a simple fact.

Ron you've been dumpin on me since I pulled you up on misrepresenting the landing gear. I'm used to it.

You would know more about GFLG and what it was capable of If you could find someone to let you fly their Monarch..........and that's not a dig at you Ron it's a plain fact you have NO EXPERIENCE with GFLG , that is a simple fact.

Aren't you a little too big ( weight and girth wise ) to be Spiderman?

Thought you said you didn't even know what I looked like. We do have lots of large fat hairy spiders down under.

Cant remember who it was, Scotty Essex or Screw who talked about 5 foot stop and drops in the Dominator???

With MLS it is important to remember that the ATGFLG is only on the ground for 1, 2, 3, Viola! Youre in the air. I challenge you to find a gyro out there with better ride comfort than that. Ha Ha Ha!

Mate the new Aurora Butterfly is gonna shrink your 'nads' to the size of peas, if Monarch gets under your skin so bad.:whoo:

It's good to be able to discuss these subjects with a little bit of comedic relief dont you agree.:peace:

I keep reading Tim V's last post,

Stop thinking about it. Do the Monarch thing!!! You will never regret it....NEVER!!!!' look lots of people can Dominate but not everybody can become a Butterfly....hehehehe. It is by my best estimation the most fun I've ever experienced in Gyro flight for fun. It has brought back to me the original JOY i first experience with gyro flight back in 1995. Uforic thats what it is. Stable, Strong, Forgiving, Fun and most of all USABLE!!!!!! Whether it impresses your friends or saves your but let it do something for you!!
blows me away.
Its the greatest thing since slice bread!!!! I want to be buried with my Butterfly. GFLG or Bust!!!!

Now I am on a mission and a time frame "bring back the original joy" to get the 582 installed and put GFLG on my morphing Butterfly. :whoo:

Fly safe

Mitch.
 
Reminds me a bit of when trailing link gear first came out on F/W exec jets. People thought it a gimmick and brought up the argument of cost and weight. Two major reasons why equipment is, or is not, on flying machines. They are now almost standard.

Thing is whatever aircraft in is, Bensen to A380 one thing is a given; whenever you take off there has to be a landing (of some kind). The trailing link gear made for softer smoother landings with more controllability. Reduced impact on the machine, less stress wear and tear, more margin for error, greater confidence in landing in a tight spot when required.

Seems whatever gyro it is, suspension is an important part of the machine. The G-force, Carter strut, whatever is coming, is a step forward in terms of gyro safety. Other lighter types of this sort of landing gear will come, but it certainly is a area where advances will always be welcome.
 
Greg Mitchell said:
Ron

Everyone I have spoken to about this statement reckons it's just plain wrong.

If Robert had done what he should have done he would have flared to a stop while still straight. He did not need GFLG to be able to do that and do it without damage. If there was a strong chance of landing in a ditch with landing straight, GFLG would have not faired any better than a straight axle like on a Bensen. You would know this if you personally had more experience Mitch.... and that is not a dig at you, that is a simple fact.

The strong chance of landing in the ditch could have been negated with GFLG by hauling back and doing a high flare and dropin long before getting to the ditch. You cant do that in a non GFLG equipped gyro.

You would know this if you personally had more experience Mitch.... and that is not a dig at you, that is a simple fact.

Ron you've been dumpin on me since I pulled you up on misrepresenting the landing gear. I'm used to it.

You would know more about GFLG and what it was capable of If you could find someone to let you fly their Monarch..........and that's not a dig at you Ron it's a plain fact you have NO EXPERIENCE with GFLG , that is a simple fact.

Aren't you a little too big ( weight and girth wise ) to be Spiderman?

Thought you said you didn't even know what I looked like. We do have lots of large fat hairy spiders down under.

Cant remember who it was, Scotty Essex or Screw who talked about 5 foot stop and drops in the Dominator???

With MLS it is important to remember that the ATGFLG is only on the ground for 1, 2, 3, Viola! Youre in the air. I challenge you to find a gyro out there with better ride comfort than that. Ha Ha Ha!

Mate the new Aurora Butterfly is gonna shrink your 'nads' to the size of peas, if Monarch gets under your skin so bad.:whoo:

It's good to be able to discuss these subjects with a little bit of comedic relief dont you agree.:peace:

I keep reading Tim V's last post,

Stop thinking about it. Do the Monarch thing!!! You will never regret it....NEVER!!!!' look lots of people can Dominate but not everybody can become a Butterfly....hehehehe. It is by my best estimation the most fun I've ever experienced in Gyro flight for fun. It has brought back to me the original JOY i first experience with gyro flight back in 1995. Uforic thats what it is. Stable, Strong, Forgiving, Fun and most of all USABLE!!!!!! Whether it impresses your friends or saves your but let it do something for you!!
blows me away.
Its the greatest thing since slice bread!!!! I want to be buried with my Butterfly. GFLG or Bust!!!!

Now I am on a mission and a time frame "bring back the original joy" to get the 582 installed and put GFLG on my morphing Butterfly. :whoo:

Fly safe

Mitch.
Click to expand...

Go back and reread Roberts account of his accident. He wasn't very high off the ground or going very fast. In those conditions he was likely already in a nose high attitude. He could have flared to a stop in any gyro in that situation and landed. If the ditch was a factor he could have stayed on the power and flown past the ditch and then landed.

In your GFLG mindset he can just land anywhere and anytime, but what I am trying to tell you is properly trained, a good pilot could do what needed to be done to get that gyro down without damage and without G force gear. Don't you think Birdy would have been able to put his gyro down in the same cirmustances without G force gear?


As far as not flying a GFLG gyro your right, but do I need to fly one to know what it can do? I have seen 3 other pilots fly them in person right in front of me and I have seen all the videos of Matt Pearson and whoever else Larry uses in his videos.


It was Screw talking about 5 foot stop and drops in his Dominator ( which is now my dominator... ) And Screw, bless his heart, is not very experienced gyro wise and especially Dominator wise. A stop and drop in his Dominator from 5-6 feet would probably not bend anything, especially landing onto a soft grass strip, but would still be one hell of a hard landing. And the reason this particular gyro can pull off a stop and drop like this is because it has the empty weight of a single seat gyro, but has extremely oversized rotors ( 400 lbs empty with 27 foot blades ) so it has alot of energy in the blades and it is very floaty.... it can come into a landing extremely slow due to the light loading of the blades. Screw has very little experience in normal Dominators and doesn't or didn't understand that a 400 lb gyro with 23 or 24 foot rotors would drop hard and probably bend something if you tried a stop and drop from 5-6 foot high.

I can't wait for you to come to America and let me show you how fast a gyro can get in the air without fancy MLS systems and GFLG's... :usa: I can get my own gyros blades up to liftoff speed with no wind and just my hydro pre rotator, with the 618 and 72 inch prop I can be in the air in 100 feet

I would comment on Tims comment, but I said I would not comment on Tim anymore. Like I said, I think you need to get to know Tim better. I will agree though, that he was having fun with his new gyro.
 
I wonder if Ron disregard suspension and its improvements when choosing a motorbike . . .guess not . . .
Also he will never land in a carrier even using Flight Sim because you know . . .he is DA PILOT and needs no stinking landing gear or whatever!
Now lets compare pre-rotators using the same engine and different set ups, ok?
Or lets stop making other gyros alltogether . . .Ron has got the formula and that is that!
C'mon Habib . . .yeld just a little, please?
Heron
 
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Habib DaWad.......he he he! Sounds like a foreign militant to me.

GFLG mindset never suggests anyone, could land anywhere, anytime. Come on Ron get a grip Boy! You is a dead set politician in the making.

Robert said:

"I was only about 15 feet above the ground as I went by a group of hangers that are along side of our runway and everything seems normal. Once I cleared the hangers, I was now over open fields (perfect for an emergency landing) when I suddenly realized that I was slowing up and not gaining altitude. Since I was only going 35 mph when I left the runway slowing down was not good! I realized that the wind must have shifted and I decided that I needed to put it down in the field. Unfortunately I was facing a field ditch so I decided, as I was sinking, to try and make a shallow left hand turn, I could not go to the right due to a hog lagoon, that is really all I need to say about that, and then all hell broke loose. My last words as I tried to land were "this is not going to be good". Needless to say I went in nose first."

As with Roberts candid account I also didn't suggest a mistake/s were not made. That is the point! Recovery for a lessor pilot than yourself could have been effected by GFLG and he didn't think he could fly on past the ditch and didnt fancy landing in it cause he obviously doesnt have your skills. So he turns, he makes the wrong choice, GFLG would have given him other options other choices............

OK OK OK, I am wrong! You are right! Ron, always and forever, the definitive word.

Fly Safe
 
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please explain what a gflg gyro would have been able to do in roberts accident that a non gflg gyro could not also do..... please!
 
Ron,
Nobody can really Monday morning quater back this thing. It gflg is for stop and drop, at higher altitudes then that is what he could have done different than a non gflg. Would that have changed the outcome if he could have landed when he was 20 in the air instead of having to get to 1 foot? Who knows? They are just saying that a 20 foot drop and land was not an option without the gflg. To call something a gimmic that other people see as an extra chance at avoiding an accident is only going to bring out the worse in people. I am not confident that I will make every landing without Murphy showing up. Maybe gflg is not the answer all, but as they have said it is an additional option. When your up to your ass in alligators is just hard as hell to remember your initial objective was to drain the swamp.
 
Like the Pink Bunny . . .going and going . . .
I planted a tree of IF in my house . . .it almost grew . . .
Ron, if you pick several situations you will see that in most of them you will want to have extra cushion and possibilities of flaring to avoid obstacles ahead of you.
Heron
 
I dont know what Ron seams to know about me that he thinks others should know while reading or taking in my few but far between post. But whoever reads....know this. I am 100% for real and sold out on the Butterly series of Gyros and its GFLG option.

I personally endorse the claims by "thebutterflyllc.com" company whatever they may be (in there intirety) and testify to its ability to produce a more productive and safe flying activity. More people would and should fly with the GFLG if the opertunity came or comes there way.

All this talk about the GFLG got me fired up.(in an excited way) So today I put my new baby to the test. Today I flared at 15 to 20ft.!!!!!!!!!!. at least 15 to 20 times. Complete stop and drop. No forward speed what so ever. I put that puppy to the test!!

WHO EVER WILL LISTEN...LISTEN TO ME!!!!!!. I speak with a voice of GFLG experience. (over 40 hrs now).

It is all that anyone could think or imagine it to be like and more. It has made me a more Confident pilot and has brought out areas of ability in me that I didn't think I had. It has set me free in a way that is really hard to put into words.

This is not something that wears off with time. It only makes you want desperately for the sun to set and rise again so you can get to another day of flying. You will not tire of having the GFLG and will only land because you know the engine begs for fuel.

The GFLG will change the way you experience and enjoy flight. If you have contimplated having something new or different with hope of it really being something NEW and DIFFERENT then contimplate no more. It lies with the GFLG experience.

I catigorically denie the lableing of "gimmic" to this superbly engineered design. It was well thought out and designed for the safety of the pilot and the further security of experiencing more safe flight.

It only makes sense and could possibly be revolutionary. It will change the way you fly.

You will not return from whence you came. Test me in this!!!!!!

You all know my heart on the matter,

Tim Verroi
 
Well certainly seems that the greater confidence Tim has in his landings has made a difference, certainly to him and his attitude towards flying his machine.

"It has made
me a more Confident pilot and has brought out areas of ability in me that I
didn't think I had."
 
Yeap, Tim sure has lot's of spirt in how excited he is about gyro flight. And he sure loves his Monarch.

Bottom line is I will never be able to have a meaningful debate on the internet with you guys, so I will leave you to praise glory to your new savior, the G force landing gear!
 
Chicken shuit!!!
Pay attention and you will continue on the debate untill someone changes its point of view! That is what debate is for.
You have your points but they don´t apply to the situation, besides you only compare Monarch with Dominator and it should be compared to all gyros.
Other than that, the evolution of a process started with landing short and safer will continue with taking off short and less noise which is one of the FAA´s holy grail right now.
All efforts to provide users with more options and a broader ranges of uses for our hibrid (is there an y?) machines . . .aero terrestrials and biplanes (compound)
So if you want to label it, debate untill you have a clear opinion, chances are your label will more in the nail´s head.
As far as flying GFLG does not make a Monarch better than a Dominator but on landing is a world apart. In the air I think they are pretty close and could not be a notch above each other . . .similar but not equal.
Your Internet manners need a cosmetic revamp . . .just keep been yourself and it will be ok.
Heron
Here´s a label for you Dominator Obssessed (too many s´s)
 
Heron, I am not a chicken $hit.... It is just like talking to a wall with the G force fans out there. To you guys, the G force gear is the cure for all landing accidents and a substitute for good pilotage. I think the G force gear is a good thing, but I will still stick to my guns and in my opinion it is not needed and not as important as you guys make it out to be.
 
GyroRon said:
Heron, I am not a chicken $hit.... It is just like talking to a wall with the G force fans out there. To you guys, the G force gear is the cure for all landing accidents and a substitute for good pilotage. I think the G force gear is a good thing, but I will still stick to my guns and in my opinion it is not needed and not as important as you guys make it out to be.
Click to expand...
Ron, (a/k/a Habib Al Awad ;)) I agree with you! Learn to land dead stop correctly and the "elephant trap" landing gear is not really needed! Back in my mighty Mac days before I learned how to build a Mac properly, I had more dead engine landings than I care to remember. I never damaged a machine in any of those landings, and some of them were in seemingly impossible terrain. (of course a little luck never hurts!:p)

Here's my take on the "elephant trap"; It will certainly allow much harder landings without damage to the machine and pilot, but I don't think Larry ever intended that contraption to be a substitute for proper landing technique. Clever lad that he is, I suspect he intended it as an interem step toward "something else" that he hasn't announced yet. Some here think it is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and it is "interesting", but as I said, I suspect there is more to come.
Please, learn how to properly do off-field landings and don't depend on "technology" to compensate for sloppy training.
Just my dos centovos worth. ;)
 
Untrue statements both of you!
It is not intended to curtail or neglect training in any way, shape or form.
It is there to save the day when all else fails.
Of couser with it you have to adjust for different landings when landing normal which reinforces training. More is always better in some situations.
Now what is in debate is the different point of views and you must aknowledge those who are not yours.
We say potato you say potato . . . keep on the same track and the light will come.
I know your not CS Habib
Heron
 
Another view: lets imagine, for the sake of argument, that our machines were all created with active suspensions. Would you remove yours and install a rigid triangular set up?
heron
 
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