Swapping the 503 for the 447

[CLS447]

Well, since the airport is now being sold & will be done Jan. 31st I grabbed my toys & went home(save on rent).

Also the miss on my 447 was getting worse(probably points).

So I removed the 447 & prepared to install the new 503. Guess what? The engine bolt mounting pattern has changed !

Also the engine will have to be moved back to allow for the oil injection pump.

Hey guess what ! I have a complete CLT kit on my shelf ! I did not want to do the conversion yet, I just wanted to swap out the engine & do an equal comparison.

So I unwrapped one part...the engine mount tube. It seems that the new tube will correct my problems( the right spacing & move the engine back for oil pump ).

Although the CLT kit will flip the engine upright , I can use it this way(I hope )!

I will still need new throttle cables, new lower prerotator drive(C box) & either use new side exhaust or relocate old exhaust.

What do you think ?

More to come !..........

 

[barnstorm2]

Chris is the airport shutting down?

I hope not. If so I hope your trailer drive will be short.

I know I am supposted to say go ahead and do the full CLT upgrade now... but I have to admit, I would want at least 1 machine up and flying while I worked on the other.

.

 

[GYRO J]

yea its abummer when the weather is good and your machine is down for repairs

 

[CLS447]

Tim, yes the airport is closing ! I will attach some articles if I can find any.

They supposedly got 14.5 million for it & will be turned into a shopping center !

I hope to share Larry B.'s hangar with him in the spring

I am due for my biennial flight review. I plan to get that done in the spring(GOOD LORD WILLING) & it is getting cold !

So now I have a TON of things to get done including surviving !

Hopefully with the economy the airport deal will fall through & Kutztown will survive.

http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=109221

http://www.topix.com/forum/us/faa/TC2K5N6KAD0MJMR6F

Tonight Meatloaf is coming to our little town & we have tickets......should be fun!

Next month is Steve Miller !

I only wished that I could spend every day , all day working on my gyros but it just ain't happening. It's really all I want to do !

Time to prepare for WINTER !!

I see that you guys got a Skyboy.......that's cool ! Have fun !

 

[PW_Plack]

...its abummer when the weather is good and your machine is down for repair...

It's a bigger bummer when your gyro is running great and your airport disappears!

I wonder if the shopping center could be built to have a very long, flat roof with no HVAC equipment obstructing it. Hmmm...

 

[skier]

Sorry to hear about Kutztown, I've flown in there a few times. It was a nice little strip and a really popular destination for people from my home airport (3N6).

 

[CLS447]

UPDATE......I haven't touched my gyros !!! BOO HOO !

The Meatloaf concert was postponed(as was the one in Youngstown, OHIO)

I think that I will be using the Air Command High Torque prerotator drive on the 503 with C box.

I will need the 9" drum & lower unit & throttle plate with engagement lever. The upper unit will be used over & I hope that the flexshaft will also work. Merry Christmas to me !

Anybody see the new stuff from Air Command ?

Check out the newsletter press release(PDF file) on their website.

Happy Halloween ! OK now let's turn those clocks back, I am sick of waiting for the sun to come up !

Hey wait one cotton pickin minute here......won't that give me less daylight in the evening ?

I don't know if I like this !? Welcome to my nightmare !

I am also hoping for a quick weekend so that this frickin election thing will be over sooner !

I am soooo worried about the stock market, I might lose everything! (just kidding)

 

[helipaddy]

$65,900 for a 912 tandem! that is some price.

 

[CLS447]

I might have to sell some of my Exxon stock for that !

That one got shipped overseas , I don't think too many gyro guys will go for that!

But you never know ....some can afford Xenons & Magnis !

I like Subaru ! Did you ever fly in a 2.5 powered RAF ? Rocketship !

Now how about those toe brakes? For me they are not needed....both my gyros can do very tight circles !

 

[CLS447]

We got the camera working again............here are some pics.

Explanations to follow tommorrow.

Well , Good Morning everyone ! Happy November ! Here goes a simple engine swap..........

1. New motor mount tube with correct motor mount spacing(old 447 had different spacing)
This also moved motor back about 3"
I would like to move it front 2 1/2" - 3". 3" would put the front of the oil pump a little too close to the mast for my liking.

I considered flipping the engine upright & flipping the gearbox down. Unfortunately this would raise the thrustline, & start a whole new set of changes.

Where the motor is now , it seems to have less prop to keel clearance than before, which I don't like. Do all Rotax gearboxes have the same offset?

2. I had decided to go with Air Commands' 9" drum for the high torque prerotator. Good thing because my old drum, for the B box ,obviously will not work with my new C box.

Anyone have a picture of a C box with a Wunderlich setup on it ?

My B box was 2.58-1 I don't think my C box has that ratio, I will find out.

Is the C box better than the B ? & why ?

3. With the engine where it is, the mount to keel motor support tubes hit the engine before they can get back into the U brackets where they belong. If I move the engine forward less than or even as far as 3" will they clear the engine then ? In my way of doing things, there is only one way to find out....try it !

4. If I get the engine front 3" , the support tubes might work & the exhaust might just fit right up !

On that note.....Is the 447 exhaust exactly the same as the 503 ?

5. I must also rotate the rope recoil starter to work with the pulley on the mast. So I have to remove the oil pump to do this. I imagine that the oil pump can be rotated accordingly? I must also install a longer rope.

I really want to keep the oil injection system, but obviously it would be easier to scrap it !

6. I actually enjoy these challenges but my dogs(Spike & Scarlet) seem to be a little bored & frustrated.

Guys, posting this whole thing is good therapy but I really would like some feedback !

And don't say..."just do the whole CLT conversion" because I have read the manual & that would NOT be easier right now ! I still have to work on the SxS(see other thread)

 

[CLS447]

HMMM.........not one responce!

Forget that I even asked any questions....................oh, you all already did OR WHAT ????

IS IT THAT PAINFUL TO TYPE ? If I can do it, ...............?

I know where to find a picture of the prerotators..................http://www.calumetair.com/

Under the prerotator section.

 

[Timchick]

Chris,
I don't have any answers to your questions because I don't have an Air Command. I did use some Air Command mount parts on my gyro when I mounted my 503 on it. I chose to mount my gearbox up to keep the engine lower to allow more clearance for my push rods. Some of the guys with the gyrobees have had clearance problems with their pushrods hitting the engine housing. Afterwards I think I could've mounted my gearbox down without the clearance problems because my mast is angled back and the gyrobee masts are straight up.

 

[barnstorm2]

Chris,

I wish I had the answers to your questions but I don't.

I like the photos though and I feel you are adding good material to the gyro knowledge base.

I know if I ever get a AC447 again I will hunt down a 503 and follow this log to upgrade it!

About the only thing I can say is that I would keep the oil injection system if I could...

In my experience with motorcycles the injected engines always worked more reliably and lasted longer.

Do you have a Lockwood Aviation catalog? They have some GREAT cross-model rotax info in them.

.

 

[CLS447]

Thanks guys, when I ordered the c box I wasn't even thinking that the prerotator drum was not going to fit!

It's hard to get important info like that.

Does anyone have a pic of this setup ? Wait.........does anyone have a C box ?

Does anyone have an older "low Rider" with an oil injected 503 on it ?

They always say "a picture is worth a thousand words" right ?

 

[cgmg]

Chris,

I agree totally with keeping the oil injection! I've done it both ways, and with mixing the oil, I was always changing plugs due to fouling. Never had to do that, except on time, with the oil injection.

The one drawback for me with oil injection was that I had to pull the engine back to get the starter housing off. It also created some clearance issues with the control rods, I think. Don't remember the exact details, but got it worked out.

 

[CLS447]

Happy Thanksgiving !

I got the motor mounted ! I had the engine tube shortened & redrilled so that there is about 1/2" between the mast & the front of the oil pump.

The rear engine support tubes hit the corners of the motor, so after looking at the options, I had a wider top strap made that moved the rods out 1" on each side. Worked great !

Now I need to get the throttle cables figured out. I got a used set from Bear Perkins($100 new/ $40 used) seems to have the wrong end on it for the oil pump.

Also trying to decide what to do with the chokes(i have the cable type)

Now would be the time to install the C box clutch since I have not done the box assembly yet. What is the best price you have seen on this unit ?

I will also need a new ignition switch for the dual ignition. What kind are you guys using ?

 

[barnstorm2]

Photos!?!

.

 

[CLS447]

Tim, my camera is on the seat of the SxS at garage! Sorry.

I will post them soon.

Oh the exhaust manifold is different between the 447 & the 503 but the exhaust is interchangeable.

One small modification & the old exhaust will fit right up.

I have now paid for & placed my order through Air Command for ....

1. 9" drum for C box

2. Lower prerotator drive unit(high torque)

3. Dual lever throttle plate(throttle lever & prerotator engagement lever)

I hope my flex shaft will work.

 

[Timchick]

Chris,
Install a primer and forget the chokes. I give my 503 a couple primer squirts and it starts up on the first pull. Sometimes after it starts it sounds like it's going to die and I just give the primer another squirt.

 

[giro5]

question 2 in part. the c box is heavier duty (also a little heavier) than the b (you can swing a larger dia prop and not worry about prop inertia). The b ratio of 2.58 is 2.62 in a c box (4 ratios available for the c box). And you can put a clutch in the c box but not in a b box.