Can We Remove Alcohol From Gas ?

Matt- We all get passionate about our feelings from time to time, and say stuff we wish we hadn't of. So why should I hold that against you? Your statement gained instant disrespect from me, but your private message put back more respect than you lost. I REALLY want to believe there are many more pluses than negatives with ethanol. It has a nice sound to it. I definitely am not against farmers, I was one and ethanol will someday be a big part of my retirement. How many people challenge something that will personally benefit them someday? My point is I feel I have an anti-bias on this topic. I would be delighted to take you up on your RV6 trip to an ethanol plant. Why don't you fly down to Paxton, and I will drive you over in my E-85 powered Ford to Gibson Citys huge ethanol plant. I really want to believe in this stuff. However, good stuff or not, I have to agree with Scott in that we should have a CHOICE. I always believed in free markets when I was farming, and hated it when our government would pull their grain embargoes, and devastate farm prices. Farmers are the backbone of our country, hands down. I thank the american Farmer for allowing me to be in the best fed country in the world. I was not smart enough nor had passion to make a good living at farming. Instead I just am a stairbuilder. I have never heard that stairbuilders are the backbone of our country! My hats off to all you farmers who let me speak my mind with my mouth full. Stan
 
Heron,
I watched the video, but could'nt understand the language. But worst of ALL , I saw no reference to tushes anywhere in there!............All airplane stuff, blah, blah, blah.....No tushes! Generally speaking,......If I am to dedicate more than 4 minutes of my time to watching video, there had BETTER BE SOME TUSHAGE!!!!!! Now I'm really mad at you Heron!!!!
 
Furthermore Heron,
For God's sake man! You live in BRAZIL!!!! I expect a better choice of videos outta you!!!!
 
In short,... Ethanol, like Ms. Obama's ass, could end up costing you your ass someday.
Click to expand...

Wow, talk about unintended circumstances! But hey I couldn't agree more.
I do not need some gov bureaucrat who has never had a job a day in his life, making decisions on what I do or what I spend...as long as I do not harm anyone else.
 
Scott
Here
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9LDSSFG1.htm
Unless you get the ballot diploma, you will have no saying in all this . . .I think it should be a technical decision, but . . . money will trade hands and the choice will trade states.
Now . . .I have posted the tush finals on another thread, did you miss it? :D
Got plenty more where those came from . . . ask and you will be heard . . .
Heron
 
Here is a word from the experts:
This question originated in a reader questioned the fact that water from hydrous separate when added to gasoline. His question was whether the separation of fuel could damage the pump, since it would first seek water and damage the engine.

Well, to better explain the subject we must go back in time, more precisely to the 80s.
At that time, the national gasoline tetraethyl lead used as anti-knock. But it is carcinogenic, this product has been replaced by adding alcohol to gasoline composition.
But that was no common alcohol, anhydrous was chosen, containing no water. This ensures that, when mixed with gasoline, it does not form a two-phase system. (Remember, gasoline and water are immiscible liquids).

Since then, the percentage of anhydrous ethanol in gasoline alone increased from the current 26%. Just for the sake of knowledge, gasoline test pattern is known as E22, ie, has 22% alcohol in its composition. Due to mixing alcohol, the name given to national gasoline is actually, Gasohol. The hydrated alcohol at the pump has 5% water in its composition, being known by the code E100 or 100% ethanol.

Now, when we mix gasohol and hydrated ethanol we realize that the water contained in alcohol is combined with anhydrous ethanol for gasoline, forming two distinct phases: the pure gasoline over, and the mixture of alcohol and water underneath. What is not cause for alarm, since the percentage of water present in the mixture is very small, what the pump sucks, in reality, is a mix with higher percentage of alcohol.

Another interesting detail is that all components exposed to fuel "green" are prepared to withstand oxidation and acidity. The pump, for example, is prepared for it, showing no defects even when working with pure alcohol. The same can be said of the fuel injectors, which are of stainless steel are prepared to work with alcohol.
 
Here is a word from the experts:
This question originated in a reader questioned the fact that water from hydrous separate when added to gasoline. His question was whether the separation of fuel could damage the pump, since it would first seek water and damage the engine.

Well, to better explain the subject we must go back in time, more precisely to the 80s.
At that time, the national gasoline tetraethyl lead used as anti-knock. But it is carcinogenic, this product has been replaced by adding alcohol to gasoline composition.
But that was no common alcohol, anhydrous was chosen, containing no water. This ensures that, when mixed with gasoline, it does not form a two-phase system. (Remember, gasoline and water are immiscible liquids).

Since then, the percentage of anhydrous ethanol in gasoline alone increased from the current 26%. Just for the sake of knowledge, gasoline test pattern is known as E22, ie, has 22% alcohol in its composition. Due to mixing alcohol, the name given to national gasoline is actually, Gasohol. The hydrated alcohol at the pump has 5% water in its composition, being known by the code E100 or 100% ethanol.

Now, when we mix gasohol and hydrated ethanol we realize that the water contained in alcohol is combined with anhydrous ethanol for gasoline, forming two distinct phases: the pure gasoline over, and the mixture of alcohol and water underneath. What is not cause for alarm, since the percentage of water present in the mixture is very small, what the pump sucks, in reality, is a mix with higher percentage of alcohol.

Another interesting detail is that all components exposed to fuel "green" are prepared to withstand oxidation and acidity. The pump, for example, is prepared for it, showing no defects even when working with pure alcohol. The same can be said of the fuel injectors, which are of stainless steel are prepared to work with alcohol.
thanks
Heron
 
Way to go Matt and Stan. Good example HERE for the rest of us we are friends with different opinions and we let you say them.

We are not always the most tactful, but name calling usually = your losing the debate or can't express your point. No one learns and most think the name caller is a jerk!

If you print facts we can check most of us learn and I'll change my opinion when wrong many here have and will too.

I keep in mind, my opinions are worth exactly what you are paying for it.
 
Heron,
Ethanol eats all the gasketing related to an engine. (carburetor, fuel lines, etc). Then it extracts water out of humid air at an astounding rate. It's equivalent to pouring 1/2 a soda pop can of water in your tank/ 20gals of fuel.
If you take time to read NTSB reports relating to crashes because of vapor lock due to ethanol found in mogas, you will NEVER use the stuff.
There are good reasons why NO MAJOR AIRCRAFT ENGINE MANUFACTURER will allow you to use ethanol in their engines. The problem gets even worse in aircraft with a low wing design, due to the fuel having to be drawn upward through a hot fuel line. Research "Reed vapor pressure test" an you'll see why vapor lock is an issue. Simply put, Ethanol in AV fuel is a potential killer. DO NOT USE IT!
 
Btw,
Everyone brings up the aerobatic plane that runs off of E85. Ask the pilot how long he allows that plane to sit with the same fuel on board, and see what he says. After a short period of time, ethanol separates into useless crap in a tank. Plus all gasketing and fuel lines have been changed to restrict damage from the ethanol.
Yeah, It'll work,.....for awhile. No thanks.
 
Last edited:
A standard/utility Catagory Aircraft with an ethanol /alcohol fuel or additive not on the T.C. and not Certificated EXPERIMENTAL , will need removal and inspection of the fuel system,power plant and airframe, For corrosion on all aluminum parts,seals and gaskets for chemical attack, replacement of pistons,valves,connecting rods, seals, overhaul of the fuel system and all parts in contact with the fluids. repair of the fuel tanks (some sealers are removed by alcohol) boost pumps,engine driven pumps overhauled or replaced, All aluminum lines replaced,Fuel vent,fuel line,valves.& rubber too, It all adds up. If you don't make a smokin hole first, I could make some good coin here.
 
I imagine we will never have a nuclear powered airplane, then . . .
But you can´t keep moving to a position where your opinion wins . . .we have to fix where the ethanol will be an option, or this is just blabber for fun, debate for exercise.
The engine must be made for alchool, it will never have gas mixture, unless it is a flex engine where the experts said: anidro and hidratado will mix and separate from gasoline, then the pump will pick one first and there will be no problem because the new white mix is only 5% water . . .
You can´t put the booze on a regular AV engine, I thought we had passed that point . . .
Look at the Ipanema 100% alchool, it looks like an aircraft engine there . . .
It will not mess up and that is 70% less if compared to Avgas, lots of savings.
Are we in the same page now?
Just shake the tank now and then to keep the mix flowing good! :D
Heron
 
Don,
It is amazing to me, how often I hear of people who don't mind running down to the local swifty discount gas place and getting a 5 gal jug of 87 and dumping it in their Cessna/ Piper, etc, without any reguard. The guy hangared next to me (Piper 140) had to replace BOTH TANKS last year, yet he still does this!
 
Heron,
PLEASE research NTSB crash synopsys reports reguarding ethanol.
 
Heron-Even your own vidio has the plane placarded :boink:"EXPERIMENTAL" and in the states a B-36 was used as an Atomic powered test bed- Its buried as waste at Edwards-:painkiller: The better fix is synthetic petrolium not too meny stainless steel airplanes out this day & age.:wacko:
The more you folks abuse the machines the better I'm paid.:wave:
 
I think we should be concerned on how to get the bureaucrats to remove their heads from their a$$'s. !!! :D
 
It starts to feel like those people that buy property around airports because it is cheaper and later move against the noise, etc . . .
Why don´t we start a thread on using alchool in diesel engines? :eek:
It is been said . . . and time proven that, a nation has the government it deserves . . .
Heron
 
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