Can We Remove Alcohol From Gas ?

[RockyMeLad]

Consider:
1.When using the poor man's alcohol detector (mix 1 part water with 10 parts gas, shake, let settle, see if there is more “water” than before), it appears that the alcohol and water combine (pulls the alcohol from the gas).
2.During normal pre-flight we check for and eliminate any water in the sump. Presumably the gas left in the tank is now fully usable.

During discussions with my son on the processes of “cleaning” home-made biodiesel, it seems intuitive that we could “clean” the alcohol from our gasoline.

1.Mix 1 part water with 10 parts gasoline
2.Figuratively speaking... stir well.
3.Let stand, allowing separation with the water/alcohol at the bottom.
4.Drain the water/alcohol.
5.Pour off the usable gasoline.

Empirically this seems possible since I have run the decanted gas after the alcohol test through a Mr.Filter and no new water is found.

It seems to good to be true, so probably is. Can anyone see the obvious gottcha that I have missed so far?

 

[automan1223]

Octane ?

Octane ?

My only concern is what your octane rating after you pull the ethanol from the fuel. Ethanol acts as an octane booster. I would also be concerned with the water absorbing other parts of the fuel that are critical fuel performance. Low octane can toast an engine faster than your perceived alcohol woes.

J

 

[RotoPlane]

I found this: http://www.fuel-testers.com/expiration_of_ethanol_gas.html

and this is what one guy does: http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78525

 

[All_In]

Right on Jonathan!!

Alcohol fuels such as methanol or ethanol may have octane ratings of 110 or significantly higher – ethanol's RON is 129 (116 MON, 122 AKI)

Also Typical "octane booster" gasoline additives like ethanol include MTBE, ETBE, isooctane and toluene. We are not sure if water also acts as a solvent / binder and may wash out too?

It's a great idea if you can test the octane and add a booster to replace any additives you lost.

 

[scottessex]

This has been discussed time and time again, do a search for "ethanol", I have posted numerous links to articles, etc. Rocky what you are left with is water, ethanol, and substandard octane fuel that is only good for burning brush. Lawnmowers wont even run on it once it phase separates. If you used this in your gyro, it would detonate and blow holes in the tops of your pistons as soon as you go to full power, all you will hear is the nice quiet swish of the rotors as your engine has already trashed itself in a few seconds.

 

[coolbaldguy]

This has been discussed time and time again, do a search for "ethanol", I have posted numerous links to articles, etc. Rocky what you are left with is water, ethanol, and substandard octane fuel that is only good for burning brush. Lawnmowers wont even run on it once it phase separates. If you used this in your gyro, it would detonate and blow holes in the tops of your pistons as soon as you go to full power, all you will hear is the nice quiet swish of the rotors as your engine has already trashed itself in a few seconds.

I agree. But as a side note you can remove water from oil and or diesel fuel by using vacuum. In a sealed vessel water boils at 72 degrees F when it is put under a vacuum of 20 inches of Mercury

 

[scottessex]

Sure you can remove it, then you are left with 2 useless liquids that kill weeds.

 

[Heron]

The hard question is: WHY?
heron

 

[scottessex]

Why what? Why ethanol mixed with gasoline?

 

[Heron]

Just say it! I promise it ain´t gonna hurt . . .
Heron

 

[scottessex]

Ethanol is a SCAM there I said it!
The only thing Ethanol is good for is if you are a corn farmer, or a politician.


You know that Heron, Brazilian Ethanol is a different story all together.

 

[StanFoster]

24% of our corn is used for ethanol. There is a huge plant 12 miles west of me. They have a gigantic well that is just 1/2 mile from my shop. They pump that water 12 miles to the plant. I read it takes 1700 gallons of water for each gallon of ethanol.

It does benefit the farmers, just ask my dad. The grain is at record prices. Its all a bunch of lobbyists getting this stuff through. I am against it even though it helps the family farm considerably.


Stan

 

[Heron]

The entire energy matrix today is a scam, why do you think they fight Iran?
This pre-salt thing down here sounds pretty much like another scam . . .there is no technology to drill it out today, but the are already making money on it.
And you know who owns the rights don´t you? (starts with hali ends with . . . )
Why fret? just fill the tank and have fun . . .
Heron
Ammending for Stan´s post (after my clic)
Why not make sugar cane ethanol in Mexico, keep more people there and help solve a few problems?
All combustion engines today are prepared for alchool.

 

[StanFoster]

Heron- You are absolutely correct. Just fill your tank.....there isnt a thing any of us can do to change things.


Stan

 

[hillberg]

Ethanol is a crappy fuel,Burn 40% more for the same power as gasoline,:suspicious: burns clear and a spill after a crash that lights off cant be seen, Racers used to add nitro for more power but the exhaust hurts the eyes. Corrodes aluminum,Drink it you go blind,:Cry: Add it to gas? Does nothing but change the profit at the pump and reduce milage.:spy:

 

[automan1223]

1700 to 1 ?

1700 to 1 ?

The oil lobby is working hard here. Ethanol is a viable solution. Entire countries use it as a gasoline replacement. Octane is great, however it has poor cold engine performance woes below 50 degrees (hard to light off). Properly prepped I.C.E engines make MORE POWER and RUN COOLER than comparable engines. Running the wrong OIL and or WRONG MIX, IMPROPER jetting, will cause problems. Last I checked the 2 stroke fans had a hard time keeping their junk running on straight gas as it was.

Ethanol unlike lead, MTBE, and the new mystery octane compounds DOES NOT CONTAMINATE GROUND WATER. In other words you do not have to SHUT DOWN a water supply from contamination. We spend, no make that waste trillions of dollars for what ? . how is your share of the 3.7 TRILLION $ budget going ? The few pennies we spend on ethanol production, grain prices are moot compared to the cost of securing unfriendly countries, e.g: the middle east and the world wide war machine.........Consider that in your "financial cost analysis" when bashing ethanol. Otherwise your no better than Helicopter Ben when it comes to your accounting.

I also have a hard time believing Stans advertised water to ethanol production claims. Water can be recycled. I could save you some here in Eastern NC we are ready to wash out to the Atlantic.....

J

 

[StanFoster]

Jonathon- I read it took 1700 gallons...but now I just read it takes only 1200 gallons due to new corn genetic hybrids that break down easier.

But, what is left out of the equation is the energy to produce the corn for ethanol, the diesel fuel for the farmers, the natural gas used to produce fertilizers, all the energy for producing the farm chemicals necessary to grow corn that will then be turned into ethanol. There is more energy doing that also. THere is indeed a net gain of energy, something like 30%.

Its nothing but a big corn lobby, and both sides of the isle have their hands in the till. Its great for my dads farming operation.

These higher farm commodity prices will just raise the cost of food for everyone. Its great for the farmers.


Stan

 

[brett s]

Ethanol made from a food source is stupid, period.

 

[automan1223]

Food or famine.

Food or famine.

We could make fuel out of people, plenty of fertilizer out there, they want to make "chemical" cremation legal.....I only thought the mafia did that.

Stan there are plenty of pros and cons for the whole situation but as I flew back from Montana many years ago I think we flew at 30,000' on a clear night and it was pitch black below us. There is tons of farmland and places to plant crops. You have huge amounts of unemployed people that could be put to work. Better yet we would not be killing anyone or supporting tin pot dictators for 30 years to ensure "stability" in a region where everyone hates us. Like any problem as large as our energy sources, there is no quick solution. Even if the right technology were to be released tomorrow. I just feel that instead of bombing the $hit out of everyone who happens to be on top of an oil reserve, maybe we could chose a different path.

The most impressive aircraft I ever saw doing aerobatics at Oshkosh in 1994 was a pitts special ethanol powered biplane. 13.5 to 1 compression ratio and the fastest and most powerful aircraft I have ever seen put through its paces.

J


J

 

[StanFoster]

Jonathon- I can see your point. There are definitely pros and cons. Growing our own oil has a good sound to it, and its popular with the farmers. I am to gain from all this ethanol, and I am not just playing devils advocate. I just dont like the idea of using food for fuel, but thats just me.


Stan