Join Pra Or Not? Free Forum Or Not?

[animal]

But, what I'm talking about is he does not in any way help the PRA! Period! .

How the Hell can you even stand there and say that! you arogant a hole!

Ron has been a chapter pres. for many years and I have personanally seen him do way more for PRA and the sport of gyro then almost anyone else.

Dean after that comment you have lost all crediablity in my book all I see from you is crying we need more members. yet you don't even have your eyes open enough to see the real movers and shakers in this sport.

besides being on this forum I have not seen you out personnaly promoteing gyros, for you to stand there and say and i quote " he does not on any way help the PRA period !" just shows to me you are the biggest blindest moron on this forum.

fact is Ron and I barely get along most the time, but FACT IS he has done more over the years to promote Gyros then half the members on here. he has always been willing to talk to people, to show off his gyro and even give free rides to people..

now I ask what have you done!

besides sit here and whine about PRA need more members and try and act like any one that flys a Gyro owes PRA. sorry I don't owe PRA crap! I was into Gyros way before I knew what PRA was.

Sure PRA has done some stuff with the FAA to improve training. but hey wake up people where flying Gyros before PRA. sure bensen formed the PRA. but we all know for a fact he did not invent the Gyroplane. bensen invented the Gyrocopters his trade name. and he started the PRA. but he in no way started Gyroplane flying it's self.

If the gyroplane had come along at a differant time in the world. I am sure there would be alot more of them flying, but the invention of the helicopter stole the gyroplanes thunder.

it is remarks like you just made about one of this sports most well known promoter of gyros, that really shows what a moron you are and personnaly shows me I need to save my money and not join PRA.

someone suggested a new orginaztion to promoto gyros. well ya know what? if they will get out there and really promote gyros instead of sitting back saying send us your money, you owe us for what we have done in the past. and for your money we will give you a crappy magizine and say you are welcoe to our airport that other members paid for but had no votes on. even thou you live thounds of miles away.. sorry but that don't cut it with me.

Sorry but i would rather invest that $50.00 in gyro parts. think about it when you are on a budget like alot of us are, $50.00 buys alot of bolts, or paint or other items we need. if we where all well off money wise. then I am sure most of us would be building helicopters or even fast fixed wings.

it's kind of like my feels of spending money on drinks for women at the bars. sure she may flirt with ya and talk a good game, but you can easyily go thru $20.00 to $50.00 in drinks and you still don't have much to show for it.

maybe I am just to tight with my money. but with todays economy you have to be. I would rather put the $20.00 in gas in my bike then waste on a bimbo at the bar. at least I enjoy the ride.

as for the airport ,that money should have been spent to promote the PRA improve the PRA and it's magizine and even used to maybe pay members expences to lobby the FAA and other governmant officals .

and I am sure I am not the only one that feels this way.

I hate to say it but that oh so great airport that most will never get to use will most likely be the real reason the PRA goes under. that just showed all the memebrship that the money was not being used for the good of all, but for the good of a few that wanted that airport.

you want new member get out and promate the sport go to events, and on't give us that we owe the PRA crap! to have some one sit there and say we owe a piss poor Org. that ruined it self becouse if wanted to be run by a select few that did not want to listen to whats it's members where saying thats just don't cut it.

trust me I may not post about it much, but I promote gyros every day. I invite people to come see my gyroproject, I have made and given away several DVDs of the ROC fly-in's and have told many about this forum.

I have had many many people call me looking for gyros and I take my time to find a good machine or tell then what to look for and where to get training.
and you know why I do it, becouse i enjoy it.

and ya know what I have never been a PRA national member. and with your attitude and blindness as a BOD member that would sit here and even have the nerve to say Ron has never done anything for PRA. well you just proved once again that I made the right choice to not join.

Stan at least looks like he is trying to change things and see the PRA for it good and bad and what needs to be changed. you on the other hand can't even see who really has promoted gyros.

I guess Dean you are still in the mind set that the PRA is not a sinking boat and it will stay a float on it's past efforts.

fact past efforts don't cut it. show the people you are listening and ready to make changes and get out of that old boys club ,we make the rules and do as we please and you can't stop us attitude and you very well get more members.

and thats all I am going to say about it.

Bottom line is to much money was wasted on an airport that does not serve all the members, and people have not forgotten that and never will. soon if thing don't change you very well may have an airport and nothing else.
I am sorry I have heard the arguement of PRA needed an airport for a home. but that don't fly with me PRA does not own an aircraft, any office space to rent or small building to by could have been a home for PRA. the money blown on that airport could have keep PRA in the green for many years. one fly in a year does not give a good enough reason to own an airport.
I don't see PRA owning the other airports that PRA fly-ins are put on at. but the local chapters keep right on haveing them.

PRA is not an airport is it is the people. but when a few people use the rest of the memberships money on what amounts to a bad decssion. then well they brought it on them selfs.

I say sell the airport, buy a nice none airport office and use the left over money to get the magizine back to a full color top notch magizine that advertiser will be happy to invest in. then you can reduce the membership dues some since you will have investiors and get out and promote the PRA and gyros. again PRA does not own an aircraft. so that being said it can be run from a normal less exspensive office. the money from the sale of the airport could very well get PRA back on it's feet.

and those are the fact as a total out siders sees it.

 

[barnstorm2]

Flyer Dean Mentioned:

http://gyrowiki.com/Shared Documents/Introduction to Gyroplanes Flyer.pdf

I just donated another $20 to the forum to keep it running, and I renewed my PRA membership,
I wish that the PRA could do more, BUT it takes everyone here to submit articles and volunteer time and money.
I donated some extra money to sunstate last year to help with insurance costs.
Everyone needs to step up and make something happen, rather than complaining.

Thank you Scott, it is good to see someone with a positive balance in the SAY/DO ratio!

.

Look a website alone is not going to do it for us, even if it becomes the main forum and easiest source of information.

The sport desperately needs PR (regarding safety) and free advertizing! More people need to see gyros safely take-off and land at public and private events’ making the general public question “well that doesn’t look so dangerous and I could really use that at the Mint 400.”

John,

I love your list and I am very willing to help you with any PRA/Gyro promotion efforts you engage in.

I and a few others have made many of these recommendations before. Personally, I am particularly fond of cross-marketing to motorcycle enthusiasts.

You can find posts that I have made back on the forum before this one (norm's) that are nearly identical to yours. (I was the director of IS for a marketing firm for several years)

I have found to my great surprise though that the homebuilt rotorcraft community has a very different dynamic then other clubs and not-for-profit orgs that I have been and am involved in.

Paul P alludes to this at the end of his post with the cheapskates comment.

Strangely, getting people to lend a hand in popularizing our sport is much more difficult then in others that I belong to.

As you can tell from this forum you won't find a lack of opinions on how things 'should' be done, lists of action items for the PRA and all sorts of expensive marketing and expansion programs that would turn our hobby around. While much of this advise seems sound on first review I have found that few of the people giving this advise are willing to put their time and money into implementing these programs. Some even seem to think the PRA has the budget of a large for-profit organization with a paid staff and marketing department.

Worse than this, sometimes when people DO make bold new programs to enhance the foundations or programs of the PRA and our sport there is no lack of arm-chair quarterbacks who have volunteered zero time (and some that have not even ponied up for even a PRA membership) to poo-poo projects because they personally don't get or can't visualise a benefit to themselves or see the 'big picture' benefit to the organization.

It's not all bad news though. There IS new blood coming into our sport! Locally, our chapter and others have become very active in the past year and new members are stepping up and not only pulling there own weight but are aggressively putting time, money and effort into growing our sport!

I am highly optimistic now that the PRA is growing once again and a new crop of pilots are asking what they can do for the sport instead of pineing away about how the PRA dues don't get you a foot-ball phone and a salad spinner in the mail.

If anyone has build reports or anything they would like to see in a PRA magazine article but you don't have the time or desire to write it up please email me and I will assist you or write it up for you. Just send me your info and photos.

.

 

[GyroRon]

Wow, Animal thanks for the support, but do me a favor and don't get too mad at Dean, I deserve some of the flack.... a Happy PRA supporter would never dare say anything negative about the PRA and I have said many negative things over the years. I just speak my mind it is a good thing and a bad thing and many times I have had to get my foot out of my mouth.

Funny thing is, the people who should be most supportive of the PRA and doing the most is the manufactors and instructors. It is in their best interests to have a strong national organization.

Bottom line is most of us are too cheap, and or lazy, or uninterested to do what we should all do.

Were too judgemental of other peoples machines, how other people fly, and so on, so there is riffs in our group that makes it even harder for everyone to want to invest time and money into what needs to be done to make the PRA successful.

Sorry if some of you think were not friendly to outsiders at our fly-ins.... But I suspect that if you just walked up on foot at a car club show and didn't personally know many or any of the people there, you would think that group is not friendly either. I don't find our group rude or unfriendly to outsiders or newbies.... show up at our fly-ins and go out of your way to introduce yourself and make friends. That is what all of us had to do at one point or another.

And even though this may sound weird, I personally am a little less crazy about being very out of my way-ish nice to newbies or outsiders I meet through the gyro community, mainly because gyroplanes seem to attract alot of people who talk talk talk about how they are going to do this and do that but never ever seem to get a gyro and learn to fly it. Just a bunch of nutbag wannabee McGiver's who must be attracted to gyros because of how complex looking yet simple they are. I don't want to waste my time conversing with someone who wants to talk hours about how they are going to build a gyro with all these ground breaking modifications and then I never see them again because they were nothing more than a dreamer. Come up to me, show me your interested and don't BS me and I am very nice to you, and I think most people in this sport are as well.

And lastly, I do have to show support for the PRA as far as the airport goes. Once anyone ( like Tim, or Gary or anyone else who has negative thoughts about the airport ) learns what the airport cost to buy and maintain and so on, and you learn the true costs, you quickly learn that the airport was not really any more expensive to the PRA than what buying a small office condo or renting a small commercial office space would have costed.... So for the same amount of money the PRA would have spent on rent or mortage for a small office space, the PRA was able to buy a nice small airstrip in rural Indianna. I think it was a good decision and I have no problem with it at all. It is a long drive away for me to enjoy, but so is Oshkosh and all the things there the EAA has bought with my EAA membership money.... that is just how it is and I am okay with it.

I am not telling anyone not to join the PRA. Please do join. If we all joined there would be enough money in the bank to give us a nice magazine and some perks

 

[GyroDoug]

Let's move on.

Let's move on.

It's too bad that the issue of "Buying the Airport" has become such a stumbling block for so many people. I wasn't involved with it in any way and do not have the facts that were considered when the decision was made. But it is a decision that was made by the people who had been voted in to positions that gave them the authority to make that kind of a decision for the rest of us. Not only was it made but it has been carried out and the Airport is now paid for. This is truly PAST HISTORY!

I suspect that only time will prove whether it was a wise decision or not. But in general, buying an appreciating asset like Real Estate has typically proven to be a very wise decision, especially long term. I suspect they didn't spend more to buy the whole airport than it would have cost them just to purchase a commercial location that could be used for a PRA headquarters. But regardless of whether each of us would have made that same decision or not (had it been up to us) this is water under the bridge. I also believe it will eventually be proven to have been a wise far sighted decision, but until time proves it one way or another it would still be wise for all of us to move on from this issue and look at what we can do to best protect our interest in being able to fly Rotary Winged Aircraft.

There is no other organization that exists to promote our sport or look out for our best interest. There is no other organization putting out any kind of a magazine (bigger or smaller, black & white or color). There is no other organization that the FAA turns to or talks to on issues that are going to affect us. Whether we like what it does or not, the PRA is our best opportunity to grow our sport and protect our interests. Let us forgive and forget past offenses and past differences. Let us get over any personality conflicts we may have with any who have served us in this voluntary, non-profit organization. Those that have spent their time and their money to serve us in the PRA leadership positions have not done so for their own personal gain. They have served us because of a love they have for our sport and a desire to see it continue in the future.

I have found that once people have served on a Board of an organization like the PRA, and seen how much time and effort it takes in their part, they are much less likely to complain about the actions of others because they have a better understanding of what is involved and they understand that even though we may not all agree on every issue, the people that serve in these voluntary positions do so with an honest intent and a desire to do the best they can. Let's get behind them and support the organization we have. If anyone feels like they could do a better job than those who are currently on the Board, please run for office at the next elections. There are a lot of people who are generally dis-satisfied (rightfully or not) and they would love to have someone to vote for that promised to bring change and do a better job of promoting our sport.

Go For It!!!!

Gyro Doug

 

[Vance]

You hit that on the head ... there is not a "welcoming spirit" among gyro-heads.

This is a sad truth.

I have not experienced this feeling of being unwelcome.

From my first encounter with autogiro enthusiasts everyone I have met has been very generous about sharing their passion and knowledge.

In my experience most people like to talk about what interests them no matter what it is. I don’t see any difference with autogiro enthusiasts.

At the events I often sit alone watching the flying and I am never alone for long. Always someone will join me and explain what is going on.

Lunch seems to be a particularly social time and the banquets are always full of humor and good will.

From the first time I met Ron he has been very generous in sharing his opinion.

I have not encountered a friendlier and more encouraging group.

Now that I am flying and learning people have been very generous with information and support.

I marvel at the enthusiasm of the PRA members to produce great experiences for all who show up. All this happens because of their love of flying and without monetary compensation.

There is a lot involved in putting on an event and yet I know that if I am able to make Mentone, the grass will be mowed and the place will look like someone cares.

I love this sport and the people in it.

In my experience support of the PRA is a great investment in future fun.

Thank you, Vance

 

[All_In]

Thanks for the offer of help Tim I would like to take you up on your offer. Can I send you my proposed marketing plan (looks like only for San Diego from the response and appears that only you and I are willing to try.)

I’m experienced at setting up flying clubs and have seen that once I organized the planning and scheduling and procedures for booking of hotels for trips. That pilots want to fly about anywhere together and members will step forward to run it for you once you have it organized with procedures allowing anyone to easily do it.

After judging the lack of enthusiasm I think I will drop back and punt. I already have 6 other folks wishing to learn gyro’s with me so we will doubled the size here without even trying. Seems pretty easy to promote to me so far.

I’m going to:
1) Take lessons get my instructors ticket.
2) Approach friends and acquaintances that own land and convince then to lease a small part of it to the San Diego chapter for our use. Already doing this but I would like to create at least 5 new gyro fields here. Setup an advertising campaign and contracts to continually acquire more fields from each new members base of friends and contacts. = Networking for cheap new land.
3) Set my nephew up as a Dealership for gyros, he’s and A&P for 10+ years and wants to fly them too. He’s very excited.
4) Market gyros to earn a living so we can pay someone to promote the sport and by using my years of contacts at working in these events to gain gyro air show time when possible and always static-display space to sell them.
5) Schedule events a year in advance and Invite all of you to come play, camp, and fly for gas money and display along with us at every type of event you can imagine that is within 500 miles of San Diego including all of Baja Mexico. Much more fun than work!
6) I should be able to make my nephew a good living and a really fun life while promoting our sport at the same time and once it's setup and others see the marketing power hopefully other manufactures and the RPA will follow.

This way I don’t have to force anyone to change I’ll just switch to a much smaller plan B!

Cheers,
john

PS:
It's a party, it's a party, it's a party!

 

[All_In]

@ Dean or any PRA member!
Have your programmer PM me and I will give you my code to use on your website for secure user login report generator and anything else you need that I already have written.
It's about 15 year old code but it works well as I never had to upgrade it!

Good luck,
John

 

[Heron]

I think the airport was a good deal and we can use it as colateral if a loan is needed to implement any program. (can we?)
That very colorfull picture Animal painted is what bothers me . . .lack or respect for what is done by many. I know guys that are around gyros before I was and go to Bensen Days every year, spending money there and just watching the show, very quiet colaborators that are PRA members for the magazine.
We need to use our magazine as the tool of preference for PR, increase subscriptions and exposure so from the numbers we can take in some members.
If we all go out and lasso one member we will double our number in no time, just need some honey to sweet the deal. Buy a ticket become a member get a free magazine for one year and win a popcorn maker (whatever)
There! from 2 thou we go to 4 thou in short time. . . now comes the hard part, keep them aboard (kinda like women, easy to catch but hard and expensive to keep)
Heron

 

[All_In]

...
If we all go out and lasso one member we will double our number in no time, just need some honey to sweet the deal. Buy a ticket become a member get a free magazine for one year and win a popcorn maker (whatever)
There! from 2 thou we go to 4 thou in short time. . . now comes the hard part, keep them aboard (kinda like women, easy to catch but hard and expensive to keep)
Heron

Now your talk'n Grassroots membership drives always have a positive effect!
John

 

[barnstorm2]

Thanks for the offer of help Tim I would like to take you up on your offer. Can I send you my proposed marketing plan (looks like only for San Diego from the response and appears that only you and I are willing to try.)

Yes, please! send it over!

It is refreshing to have some new ideas and some enthusiasm for expanding our sport and organization!

We need to use our magazine as the tool of preference for PR, increase subscriptions and exposure so from the numbers we can take in some members.
If we all go out and lasso one member we will double our number in no time, just need some honey to sweet the deal. Buy a ticket become a member get a free magazine for one year and win a popcorn maker (whatever)
There! from 2 thou we go to 4 thou in short time. . . now comes the hard part, keep them aboard (kinda like women, easy to catch but hard and expensive to keep)
Heron

Now your talk'n Grassroots membership drives always have a positive effect!
John

I tried to sponsor a membership drive a few years back. Rick even gave me a full-page ad in Rotorcraft for it.

It had a very poor response.

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1780&highlight="membership+drive"

What I have learned since then is that the magazine (any club magazine) is not an efficient membership driving tool.

Much more effective is to have people write articles for OTHER magazines (EAA, Motorcyclist.. what ever).

Also, for a long time the PRA office was having a hard time efficiently processing membership renewals, renewal reminders and new memberships.

That has changed and the system now in place is working very well and we have had a positive increase in membership because of it.

Most of the older PRA membership does not want to press friends into a membership. The newer blood and members are much more likely to do this.

I have generated more PRA members by simply FLYING my gyro to fly-ins and other events and handing out flyer's then by the membership drive.

New blood is the way to go. IMHO.

In my experience some of the older gyro people are not looking for reasons to join they are looking for reasons to complain (see post above). It is a waste of time to work with these people. As soon as you address one issue they will be working on making up another.

People coming into the sport fresh or people that have been active in the past know the value of the PRA and are not a waste of time when you try to motivate them.

There are leaches and seeders. Don't waste time with the leaches, seek out seeders!

.

 

[dabkb2]

All_In

All_In

sounds great John. If there is anything I can do to help, let me know. It would be great to get some new people involved, and a new runway close to home really sounds awsome. I hope to have my gyro flying this weekend.

 

[Udi]

...After judging the lack of enthusiasm I think I will drop back and punt. I already have 6 other folks wishing to learn gyro’s with me so we will doubled the size here without even trying. Seems pretty easy to promote to me so far...

Don't give up so fast, John. Your enthusiasm and great ideas are refreshing and exciting. I admire your attitude. A bunch of people with this attitude could revolutionize this sport. I wish you can maintain this energy level going forward - eventually it will stick.

Udi

 

[All_In]

@Tim
Thanks Tim I will take you up on that the more input the better, especially based on experience.

And don't give up on membership drives they just need some incentives and remember, even a small increase still is a success and more of a move towards profitability than doing nothing. It usually matters more when the revenue from the drive isn't reused for further marketing. And the next membership drive try prizes where you also get sponsors to put up prizes, like radios, mikes, even perhaps gyros or rides? I excel at getting sponsors, I guest because I can see and explain how to gain advantage by cross marketing or whatever the advantage is. Begging also helps!

Thanks Tim!!

sounds great John. If there is anything I can do to help, let me know. It would be great to get some new people involved, and a new runway close to home really sounds awsome. I hope to have my gyro flying this weekend.

@ Dave you know you are in!!! As well as anyone else who wants to play.

Don't give up so fast, John. Your enthusiasm and great ideas are refreshing and exciting. I admire your attitude. A bunch of people with this attitude could revolutionize this sport. I wish you can maintain this energy level going forward - eventually it will stick.

Udi

@Udi thanks, I never give up, never surrender!

My motto = If you don’t quit,
it’s really hard to fail!

Just think plan B was a greater chance of success. It will take longer with our small group and without central organization and then there are the negative connotations of recommending a sport that you’re trying to sell them an aircraft to fly for profit.

As my handle implies once in, I’m truly “All In”! So I will be helping anyway I can in the future.

But unless I hate flying these thing, I'm in!
John

 

[All_In]

@David!!!

One thing anyone in San Diego can do for me regarding airfields, is to PM me: all those really great looking flat fields out there and get me a latitude and longitude or address so I can practice begging the owners and offering whatever it takes to get to us more ‘zones’.
My perfect choice would be a field within walking distance of a cafe with fuel!!

I'm thinking of starting the (1st) letter / phone call with " This is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for a lucky family if you have a family member who wishes to learn to fly!”

A little premature David, but it never hurts to go through the first 99 no’s as a learning experience and to see what letter really works.

Thanks and can’t wait to see you fly,
John

 

[barnstorm2]

John,

Those goodies might get some good reactions from a membership drive. But without such I doubt the I would try to start one again.

I have just found that other methods have been more successful for me.

One idea that I have been batting around is to take up a collection to place an ad in a prominent motorcycle magazine.

Also, John and Doug, I was wondering if you had any ideas for leveraging the chapters?

Some chapters are notorious for bad communication.

I wonder what would happen if we tried to call a bi-annual meeting of chapter reps to meet online?

I would provide a LiveMeeting session through my company and a free voice conference system.

Dean, any feedback?
.

 

[All_In]

John,

Those goodies might get some good reactions from a membership drive. But without such I doubt the I would try to start one again.

I have just found that other methods have been more successful for me.

One idea that I have been batting around is to take up a collection to place an ad in a prominent motorcycle magazine.

Also, John and Doug, I was wondering if you had any ideas for leveraging the chapters?

Some chapters are notorious for bad communication.

I wonder what would happen if we tried to call a bi-annual meeting of chapter reps to meet online?

I would provide a LiveMeeting session through my company and a free voice conference system.

Dean, any feedback?
.

Excellent Idea's and I agree!
I've been given permission to use our chapter as an LLC heaven to acquire airfields leases this will make chapter 31 much more valuable to the gyro community. If this works it will be easy to teach and copy.
John


PS:
The problem with one shot advertising/ marketing plans are that it difficult to judge results as it is really a matter of trial and error and tricks like running two ads in similar magazines to judge which has the best results. The next month switch the ads and to see if you get the same results, then re-write the losing add to try and out compete yourself and repeat the process in different magazines until you find the best magazine for your product. You can do small add on the cheap but. There is always a but, marketing plans only work over an extended period.

It would be better to learn how to raise new sources of revenue with fundraisers at events we frequent that are earmarked specifically for marketing PRA.

It’s really the same for any business except it much easier for non-profit and kids groups to raise $4000.00 in a weekend selling cokes and hotdogs in front of a super-market for a cause.

 

[GyroRon]

It would be great to have all people involved in gyroplanes and light, sport helicopters to be members of the PRA. my question is, what is the PRA? Is it a organization or is it a magazine subscription? Or is it both? I am not interested in a 50$ a year magazine subscription, not when the news, photos, and information is easier and quicker to view for free online. I suspect alot of people feel the same way. The board needs to look into a way for people to join the PRA and support it at a reduced cost, and perhaps look at doing away with the magazine or making it a online readable only magazine that is password protected. 50$ is not alot of money to some folks, but 50$ is alot of money to alot of folks, myself included.

I think you would be in a better position with a PRA of 5000+ members at 10-20$ per year, who are joining to support the PRA so the PRA can do what it does, and no magazine..... than a PRA with 1000+ members at 50$ per year, who are joining to get a magazine that eats up nearly all of the money the PRA takes in.

The choice is pretty obvious to me.

Both the Sunstate club and our Carolinas/Georgia club recently voted on and went to online only newsletters to cut our costs and be able to use our incoming dues money to do more things to interest our members and attract new members.

 

[Brent_Brown]

Airport Airport Airport

 

[All_In]

IMHO
The magazine could be a moneymaker if the priority was to pay full time REAL salesmen to sell advertising.

Here's how I would go about FINDING soliciting potential advertisers for the magazine and at the same time asking for some of their products to give-a-way for the promos.

1) Search the forum for any positive comments regarding 'any' products the forum member’s use. Hey ask for suggestions!

2) Get permission to use the member’s comments as proof that the manufacture has a market here and that we can help then sell or promote their product. Of course you are going to have to make them believe that you really could grow the market and they will sell more of their goods and/ or services.

3)Have a PRA member who really believes that he can help and then just keep calling back 10 manufactures a day until they finally give-in ( if you promise not to call back!) :wacko:

And I would specifically look for non-aviation products as new advertisers! Every large company will try cross marketing once with PRA mag. Which means for about 6 months to a year of ads from companies like sunscreen manufactures, etc. until they even know if it working or not and then pull the add. By that time you have another new customer from steps 1-3.

We sell the company your image = ‘the young’ or adventuress spirit, or macho spirit, or safety spirit or whatever the company thinks it needs to improve or would like to be.

Here's the lines that really works for the close!
We will really make you look cool! …. Pause ….
Come on this is pennies in you budget and you WILL NEVER KNOW UNTIL YOU TRY.

That last line plays to reality and goes back to their training/education and the fact that folks purchasing advertising have all seen the worst idea for cross marketing work when everyone just knew it won't!

Cheers,
John

An Example of cross marketing:
One of my very best cross marketing plans for selling flying lessons to folks who never though they could fly was by advertising 1 hour Whale watching trips over San Diego. Really it was just a one-hour flight lesson, but added 35% of the new students during that short few months. And most of these people heard our ads for the flying lessen and thought they couldn't do it.

 

[All_In]

It would be great to have all people involved in gyroplanes and light, sport helicopters to be members of the PRA. my question is, what is the PRA? Is it a organization or is it a magazine subscription? Or is it both? I am not interested in a 50$ a year magazine subscription, not when the news, photos, and information is easier and quicker to view for free online. I suspect alot of people feel the same way. The board needs to look into a way for people to join the PRA and support it at a reduced cost, and perhaps look at doing away with the magazine or making it a online readable only magazine that is password protected. 50$ is not alot of money to some folks, but 50$ is alot of money to alot of folks, myself included.

I think you would be in a better position with a PRA of 5000+ members at 10-20$ per year, who are joining to support the PRA so the PRA can do what it does, and no magazine..... than a PRA with 1000+ members at 50$ per year, who are joining to get a magazine that eats up nearly all of the money the PRA takes in.

The choice is pretty obvious to me.

Both the Sunstate club and our Carolinas/Georgia club recently voted on and went to online only newsletters to cut our costs and be able to use our incoming dues money to do more things to interest our members and attract new members.

Makes sense to me Ron.
I appreciate your and Tom's and others excellent observations (some who are threaten may think of them as complaints) which actually allowed me to see what is broken and ten different profitable way to fix each one. Give’s me hope also I hear each request and desire you stated as it = penned up demand which is all I needed to grow a company in the past.

Being the new kid, I’m still hopeful for PRA but I’ll just start where I can with one chapter at a time as Bobby seems much more open here. So PRA Chapter 31 should start providing new airfields to fly out of within a year or less.

The first thing I would do is segregate the donation revenue and budget each department and then I'd hire about 10 commission phone salesmen from around the world to sell ads space for the mag then I would either make every other department pay for itself or cut it out like the cancer it is. Not sure but seems to me so far, just start treating it like is was a real hardcore business where the members truly can profit.

Thanks, I wish it was this easy to find out what my customers though and wanted. You would see me change the company policy that instant!!!!! Complainers are a barometer and really a business for profit owner’s best friend because a wise business will truly change, charities don’t have too, bummer!
John