AUTOGYRO Ela jump takeoff

[MikeBoyette]

That's stating the obvious, of course it's the torque from the prerotater which the Gyrhino proves is manageable with only rudder compensation
and that was with a very powerful prerotator once the aircraft was in the air. Would it have uncontrollably turned the aircraft if a roll was attempted?
I wish I would have asked Dick about that at Bensen days.......

His drive has a constant percentage going to the rotor the entire time. This makes it a hybrid as Dick describes it. The prerotator as you are referring to it as is in fact not that at all. It is a higher gear in the transmission only used for that jump. That’s why on warm up he has the blades spinning but at a much lower RPM than flight speed. He slows the engine down then engages the second gear to jump and once 500 plus RPMs is achieved he pulls the collective to jump and returns to the 13% power to the rotor at all times.

 

[Aerofoam]

Thats not how Dicks machine works.
He could probably sit on the ground all day with RRPM above flight rpm.

I initially misread this.
What is "Not" how Dick's machine works?

I stated:
"I think powering a depitched rotor doesn't provide enough torque to be an issue, I believe the rotor is being driven by less than 25% of what would be needed if it were a helicopter, but I am not sure of that number."

And your response seems to agree with what I was stating, so I am not sure what you are referring to, did I miss something?

 

[Aerofoam]

His drive has a constant percentage going to the rotor the entire time. This makes it a hybrid as Dick describes it. The prerotator as you are referring to it as is in fact not that at all. It is a higher gear in the transmission only used for that jump. That’s why on warm up he has the blades spinning but at a much lower RPM than flight speed. He slows the e gone down engages the second gear to jump and once 500 plus RPMs is achieved he pulls the collective to jump and returns to the 13% power to the rotor at all times.

That is a cool solution, I wish I would have known that when I was talking with him.
I wonder what the losses are through the gear train and the additional weight.?
Also question the torque turn on take off and lack of it on some take offs...

Is it a higher gear, or just the differential set up that is favoring the least resistance?

 

[MikeBoyette]

That is a cool solution, I wish I would have known that when I was talking with him.
I wonder what the losses are through the gear train and the additional weight.?
Also question the torque turn on take off and lack of it on some take offs...

Is it a higher gear, or just the differential set up that is favoring the least resistance?

He may have simplified the explanation to me as my comprehension level is not the same as his. He described it as a second gear.

Once the optimum RPM is achieved for the jump the second gear is disengaged and the only torque induced is the normal 13% that is always there.

His Tail and HS are built to handle the torque induced from the partial power. He says it’s noticeable but manageable. Dad tried it one time and opted to do a rolling take off and landing.

The reason for the partially powered rotor is for efficiency. He is able to fly faster and use less fuel than if he was purely a helicopter or a gyroplane. The other reason it’s Dick DeGraw. He just likes to make widgets and levers. I joke with him all of the time. My Dad loves to make things that work and do it as simple as possible. Dick will attack the same project and make it as complicated and efficient as possible.

 

[wolfy]

I initially misread this.
What is "Not" how Dick's machine works?

I stated:
"I think powering a depitched rotor doesn't provide enough torque to be an issue, I believe the rotor is being driven by less than 25% of what would be needed if it were a helicopter, but I am not sure of that number."

And your response seems to agree with what I was stating, so I am not sure what you are referring to, did I miss something?

You said something like "unless he sat on the ground to long and the nose wheel came up"
I meant he could sit there all day at above flight rpm on the ground and nothing would happen until he pulled pitch. Like a helli,
You said something like "sometimes the turn after lift off and sometimes less"
Like i said his rotor and prop run through a differential so torque is varying to suit the situation constantly and automatically.

wolfy

 

[Aerofoam]

You said something like "unless he sat on the ground to long and the nose wheel came up"
I meant he could sit there all day at above flight rpm on the ground and nothing would happen until he pulled pitch. Like a helli,
You said something like "sometimes the turn after lift off and sometimes less"
Like i said his rotor and prop run through a differential so torque is varying to suit the situation constantly and automatically.

wolfy

Ok, I was referring to a ground roll when the nose rises, which could create and adverse control situation with the rotor powered.
As far as the turn on take off, there are a number of videos showing an immediate torque induced turn within the first 8ft. of the jump, so the aircraft exit trajectory is about 80deg. from where it was when it jumped.
That is not present in all the videos, so maybe it was a first version, or just technique....

 

[MikeBoyette]

The turn on takeoff is intentional. He does this on purpose as a show of how much in control he has. The one of he and Carol jumping at the same time shows it good. It’s done with a hard rudder input. Probably done in the direction of the induced torque accentuate it, but it is definitely an intentional maneuver.

 

[DarDow101]

 

[GyrOZprey]

I found my clip of Dick DeGraw doing his jump departure from Mentone in 2019 - with his sweet twin-prop Gyrhino -jump TO machine!
Just finished the YT upload and will be available @ midnight for the public!

 

[wolfy]

Amazing Dick offered his rights to anyone who wanted to build his gyros for free apparently and no one has taken up the offer.

wolfy

 

[MikeBoyette]

Amazing Dick offered his rights to anyone who wanted to build his gyros for free apparently and no one has taken up the offer.

wolfy

Not sure if that is indeed true. He sold the rights to the head and drive system to a company and they defaulted. Last I knew he was entertaining new offers. It’s been a while so that may have changed. I have known him most of my life and free usually isn’t in his vocabulary unless he’s getting it. lol

 

[Abid]

Amazing Dick offered his rights to anyone who wanted to build his gyros for free apparently and no one has taken up the offer.

wolfy

I don’t think so. I think he wanted to sell them and I think he did. The problem is there is the helicopter market and then there is a market for sport pilot eligible gyroplanes. I don’t think there is much market in between. This is in between.

 

[Strike]

Non credo. Penso che volesse venderli e penso che lo abbia fatto. Il problema è che c’è il mercato degli elicotteri e poi c’è un mercato per gli autogiri idonei ai piloti sportivi. Non penso che ci sia molto mercato in mezzo. Questo è nel mezzo.

PI think that a nice machine made well, with a system like this can have its share of the market, obviously costs cannot rise without reason however!!! This is a system that produced in series can cost a maximum of 7/8k complete with everything no more!!!

 

[MikeBoyette]

PI think that a nice machine made well, with a system like this can have its share of the market, obviously costs cannot rise without reason however!!! This is a system that produced in series can cost a maximum of 7/8k complete with everything no more!!!

I agree. The thing I love is the aerodynamic cover over the system so that their competition can not steal it. The gyro market has a terrible history of this.

My Father debuted a four bladed seesaw stacked rotor system at a Bensen Days in the mid 90’s. He was able to align the blades in the same plain and had a device that allowed for flexibility in plain to combat the scissors affect. It worked great on a light machine. He was able to carry more weight at a lower power setting on a disk that was 3’ smaller. The only issue was the controls were much faster left and right but not fore and aft. It took some getting used to. It was abandoned once it was tried on a 1500 lb Air Command CLT powered by a Mazda. The scissors affect raised its ugly head. All four blades were torn from the trailing edge to the spar. The pilot trying was barely able to get on the ground safely. The point to this story is about 6 months later Magni came out with their own version, an exact copy from the outside. I’m guessing they abandoned it for the same reasons because after that magazine cover it was never heard of or seen again.