Aussie_Paul
A reforming stirrer!!!!!
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Undercarriage geometry????
- Thread starter Aussie_Paul
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Aussie_Paul
A reforming stirrer!!!!!
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Butch S. said:
All in due course Stephen, but things are coming along nicely at the moment.
Not being able to train until March 2006, is allowing me to devote all my time, and effort towards the Firebird project. I am now able to use all the testing information I gained several years ago, first with Hybrid and then the Raf mods I designed and tested.
Aussie Paul.
Butch S.
Member
Ok Paul don't play nice with the other kids I won't tell you what we make our Fglass & carbonfiber spars out of either & I won't tell you that our 2seater spars only weigh 5.5kg
THIS MESAGE WILL SELF DESTRUCT!
THIS MESAGE WILL SELF DESTRUCT!
Aussie_Paul
A reforming stirrer!!!!!
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Sorry Stephen, I did not mean to be unhelpful BUT a couple of things are not prooven yet, and the u/c is one of them.
Aussie Paul.
Aussie Paul.
Chopper Reid
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What would spring steel struts weigh ??
That set up is looking good Paul.
That set up is looking good Paul.
Butch S.
Member
Paul we are testing on two flying gyro's at present & one is a Rosco retro fitted with glass spar & it has been verticaly landed [by accident by a student of Dave S.] from about 8-10ft no probs & Dave landed on one side deliberatly 4-6ft vert no probs. Brian spring steel bounces gyro's back into the air been tried & heavy .Alloy tube strut type -Rosco's weight is total including rubber & wheel stub both sides just under 5kg & 50mm max travel /glass & Cfiber spar total inc stubs just over 6kg 2seat & 200mm travel limit because base tube hits ground .
Aussie_Paul
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Butch, by base tube do you mean the keel?????
Aussie Paul.
Aussie Paul.
Aussie_Paul
A reforming stirrer!!!!!
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Hi Brian.........
Hi Brian.........
..........as you probably know most of my Firebird stuff (technical word), has been tested on Hybrid over the last 3 years. A couple of items have not been tested and the u/c is one of them. Time will tell once I have it in the air and flying.
I am very happy with the Firebird progress and look forward to having it flying not to far down the track.
The windscreen and doors are to be blown the week after next. The tail feathers will be ready to be fitted about the same time. Firebird is sitting on 3 wheels with the engine, redrive, and prop fitted. I can now sit in it and go brrrrm, brrrrrm, brrrrrm!!!!!!!!
Firebird has 2 X 45 liter seat tanks and the seating position is very comfortable. Comfort has been a major consideration after my Alice Springs trip last year. It is no good having 4 or 5 hours of endurance if you cannot use it by being comfortable. All you young fellas might put up with it, BUT not this little old bloke!!!!
Regards, Paul.
Hi Brian.........
Chopper Reid said:
..........as you probably know most of my Firebird stuff (technical word), has been tested on Hybrid over the last 3 years. A couple of items have not been tested and the u/c is one of them. Time will tell once I have it in the air and flying.
I am very happy with the Firebird progress and look forward to having it flying not to far down the track.
The windscreen and doors are to be blown the week after next. The tail feathers will be ready to be fitted about the same time. Firebird is sitting on 3 wheels with the engine, redrive, and prop fitted. I can now sit in it and go brrrrm, brrrrrm, brrrrrm!!!!!!!!
Firebird has 2 X 45 liter seat tanks and the seating position is very comfortable. Comfort has been a major consideration after my Alice Springs trip last year. It is no good having 4 or 5 hours of endurance if you cannot use it by being comfortable. All you young fellas might put up with it, BUT not this little old bloke!!!!
Regards, Paul.
Chopper Reid
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Good to hear that you have that comfort thing under controll cause thats the weakness in most 2 seaters. Got plenty of fuel there too !! How come you dont use a 76 inch prop?
Butch, that glass spar sounds really good, I like the 200 mm travel part particularly. The Rosco set up is damm tough but it is rough on rugged ground.
Butch, that glass spar sounds really good, I like the 200 mm travel part particularly. The Rosco set up is damm tough but it is rough on rugged ground.
Aussie_Paul
A reforming stirrer!!!!!
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Brian.....
Brian.....
....Firebird can have either 76 or a 68" as well as timber or composite props. Subaru 167 hp ej-25 SOHC, or 134hp ej-20 SOHC, as well as the Rotax 912 uls or the 914
Also a choice of extruded or composite rotors. Firebird will be certified with any of those variables.
Choice is the name of the game in marketing these days. No choice when it comes to stabs though!!!!!
Firebird is no longer a figment of Pauls imagination!!!!! I am 3 years behind, BUT better late than never, I hope!!! Time will tell if I have any idea of what I am doing. I might be in for a disapointing surprise.
Aussie Paul.
Brian.....
Chopper Reid said:
....Firebird can have either 76 or a 68" as well as timber or composite props. Subaru 167 hp ej-25 SOHC, or 134hp ej-20 SOHC, as well as the Rotax 912 uls or the 914
Also a choice of extruded or composite rotors. Firebird will be certified with any of those variables.
Choice is the name of the game in marketing these days. No choice when it comes to stabs though!!!!!
Firebird is no longer a figment of Pauls imagination!!!!! I am 3 years behind, BUT better late than never, I hope!!! Time will tell if I have any idea of what I am doing. I might be in for a disapointing surprise.
Aussie Paul.
Dragon-Fly
Junior Member
Rotor
Rotor
Paul
You did a lot of research into lessening the rotor angle for less resistance and more speed and economy. Did you have any successes thusfar?
Rotor
Paul
You did a lot of research into lessening the rotor angle for less resistance and more speed and economy. Did you have any successes thusfar?
Butch S.
Member
Frank /Paul
By success do you mean still alive having not yet flown through own rotors it is a slipery slope we climb trying to reduce rotor disk angle.Also fast flying is made more Dangerous by non clt gyros that fly nose down at lower speeds because as they increase in speed they nose down more exposing more frontal drag at a lower point than original center line of drag this combined with less angle on rotors is a killer combination
By success do you mean still alive having not yet flown through own rotors it is a slipery slope we climb trying to reduce rotor disk angle.Also fast flying is made more Dangerous by non clt gyros that fly nose down at lower speeds because as they increase in speed they nose down more exposing more frontal drag at a lower point than original center line of drag this combined with less angle on rotors is a killer combination
Aussie_Paul
A reforming stirrer!!!!!
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Not really Butch......
Not really Butch......
......We are talking about a miniscule reduction like 1/4 to 1/2 a degree. I believe that we have achieved something with the set of blades that used 400 less engine rpm to do the same job. Unfortunately we lost positive stability, and ended up with neutral stability.
These are not yet a beginners blade BUT an experienced musterer would absolutely love them. More testing will start when I have Firebird flying and we fine tune rotors to that particular machine geometry.
There is a lot of misunderstanding about what happens when the disc angle gets low. There seems to be a belief that as the disc gets towards the horizontal that you are only a "sneeze" with the stick away from bunt over. Not so. Back on Norms forum Chuck Beaty explained it very nicely in laymans terms using a fixed wing for comparison. I believe "Relative airflow" are the key words.
A Cessna wing flys with a 3 or 4 degree positive to the relative airflow. Our revolving wing flys around 9 degrees. A long way from 4 degrees.
Any chance you could repeat it Chuck. I hate to ask you again Chuck but it is important.
Aussie Paul.
Not really Butch......
Butch S. said:
......We are talking about a miniscule reduction like 1/4 to 1/2 a degree. I believe that we have achieved something with the set of blades that used 400 less engine rpm to do the same job. Unfortunately we lost positive stability, and ended up with neutral stability.
These are not yet a beginners blade BUT an experienced musterer would absolutely love them. More testing will start when I have Firebird flying and we fine tune rotors to that particular machine geometry.
There is a lot of misunderstanding about what happens when the disc angle gets low. There seems to be a belief that as the disc gets towards the horizontal that you are only a "sneeze" with the stick away from bunt over. Not so. Back on Norms forum Chuck Beaty explained it very nicely in laymans terms using a fixed wing for comparison. I believe "Relative airflow" are the key words.
A Cessna wing flys with a 3 or 4 degree positive to the relative airflow. Our revolving wing flys around 9 degrees. A long way from 4 degrees.
Any chance you could repeat it Chuck. I hate to ask you again Chuck but it is important.
Aussie Paul.
Butch S.
Member
Paul
I spoke to Rob Patroni today at my workshop & he said he had returned to original 8H12 design with a twist & taper only but as Dave & I test fly Rob's rotors often
I know that there is a big difference between blade designs in optimal flying speeds & lift. The problem is by the time you know that you'v gone to far you have to read about it in your obituary
"live long fly slow, if speed is your aim buy a plane"
Butch
I spoke to Rob Patroni today at my workshop & he said he had returned to original 8H12 design with a twist & taper only but as Dave & I test fly Rob's rotors often
I know that there is a big difference between blade designs in optimal flying speeds & lift. The problem is by the time you know that you'v gone to far you have to read about it in your obituary
"live long fly slow, if speed is your aim buy a plane"
Butch
