Tip Rocket Pre-Rotation

I got to see all three and what a site, got talk to the Pilot (sorry too many pepole this week) as he unloaded it and made sure I got to see it. As with any new break idea, I'm sure it didint preform as would have liked, however I've never seen a set of rotors come up like that. I do know this, of all the gyros that were being viewed, this one took the cake when it came to drawing a crowd. Great job and I believe the fix to get this system working gret is right around the corner. Best of luck.
 
Hi JR
I am glad you liked the tip rockets even if there was no perfect TO this time. Luckely enough it works well some times, so it should be fixable. Clark wrote me a mail saying:
"Every time i do this I learn more. I flew it again this morning at mentone after almost
everyone left and figured out how to do it very good. Its all in speeding up the drill (=throttle. -My remark) as the rotors speed up. Its tricky and takes alot of consentration. But when its done right its awsome."
We have also some other clues how to make it work fine EVERY time.

Again: Any movie clips around?
 
Gyrocopter VTO with HP rotor tip rockets

Gyrocopter VTO with HP rotor tip rockets

Clark managed to get a nice VTO on film. Here it is:
Clark Gyrocopter VTO 08-21-2011 - YouTube

I feel the system is now developed and tested to a point one could look into manufacturing of it and offer complete systems and components for sale.

Will there be a market interest?
 
I feel the system is now developed and tested to a point one could look into manufacturing of it and offer complete systems and components for sale. Will there be a market interest?

Erik, I don't think there was any question it could be made to work. I still have a few questions:

(1) The takeoff seems to require at least a little forward roll. Is this a matter of improving pilot technique, or are there stability issues yet to be solved?

(2) The automatic record level control in most video cameras masks the relative sound level between the engine and the tip rockets. They seem very loud, on a par with the noise level of an unmuffled Mac engine, but has anyone measured exactly how loud?

(3) What are the risks (and regulations) associated with talking off on grass, as Clark did in this video? We're told H2O2 can start fires if spilled on combustible surfaces.

(4) What would we do for rotor blades and rotor heads? Are any special precautions or maintenance required?

I am very impressed with what you've achieved here!
 
From the slight bobble on takeoff, I believe it would be safer to leave the H2O2 on until a higher forward speed is reached. I like this idea for powering pre-rotation…..
 
H2O2 coupled w/ traditional prerotator

H2O2 coupled w/ traditional prerotator

I can see using this along w/ the traditional prerotator system being used on most gyros for even better results w/ less $$ spent for each prerotation.

Prerotate using existing prerotator to approximately 200-250 rrpms, at which time engage H202 system to bring the rotors up the 450-500 rpms necessary for vertical lift-off.

Less time required for H202 rotations (savings off the ten bucks or so it costs for a H202-only prerotation). More H202 for more vertical take-offs, and the possibilities of exploring vertical landings, such as G-Force landing gear that Butterfly has.

The biggest $$ saver would be the non-airport requirement. No hangar fees, if towed from storage at home. Take off from any surface that one had permission from, such as the side of a crop field. No waiting until after crops are harvested by using the weedy, non-cultivated fringe area.
 
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Erik, I don't think there was any question it could be made to work. I still have a few questions:

(1) The takeoff seems to require at least a little forward roll. Is this a matter of improving pilot technique, or are there stability issues yet to be solved?

Answer: Clark claims he has done several TO:s this summer when he popped vertically streight up in the air. He just didn´t manage to get them on film.
If you ask me, it apears to be more stable to have a forward speed at lift-off though, as on the clip. Just my own thinking.

(2) The automatic record level control in most video cameras masks the relative sound level between the engine and the tip rockets. They seem very loud, on a par with the noise level of an unmuffled Mac engine, but has anyone measured exactly how loud?

Answer: The rockets are pretty noisy in real life. I have meassured the noise level with a decibell meter once, but I don´t remember the reading (I believe if you scrutinize old reports on my website you can find the reading somewere)

(3) What are the risks (and regulations) associated with talking off on grass, as Clark did in this video? We're told H2O2 can start fires if spilled on combustible surfaces.

Answer: There is practically no risk if the grass is fairly green/fresh as on the movie.
When I handed over the system to Clark last summer, I poured peroxide on dry grass just to sdemonstrate grass can take fire, but it did not. I failed to create a fire on anything I tried, like dry grass and dry wood at that time, but for sure; -In principle one CAN start a fire at least on very dry grass, just when starting the rockets.

(4) What would we do for rotor blades and rotor heads? Are any special precautions or maintenance required?

Answer: My plan now is to offer complete systems including blades with rockets and rotor head with fuel transfer lines -if there is an interest. As an alternative I may offer just the tip rockets for the buyer to install them on his blades himself and modify his own rotor head. If you send drawings/pictures I could give some opinion/advice regarding possible installations.

I am very impressed with what you've achieved here!

Answer: Thank you! We should all be thankfull to Clark! No one new exactly how it would work before he tested. There was talk about "dirty air" and other risks. Some "experts" were convinced he would crash.
 
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All the Credit for this belongs to Erik
For his wisdom - Thank You

PS - This is just the begining

Clark
 
Clark, welcome to the forum, and congrats on your achievement!

If I could offer a couple of suggestions, it might be time to see if one of the rotorblade manufacturers would have an interest in this idea. I'd also consider a system which could be completely self-contained within the rotor hub, with the capacity for three or four jumps per filling, eliminating the need for all the plumbing through the head and below. A switchable current through a commutator could be used to run the pump.

This is a very exciting development!
 
All the Credit for this belongs to Erik
For his wisdom - Thank You

PS - This is just the begining

Clark

CLARK!!! Remember me? the guitar/singer Friday night, camped next to you in the blue Durango. Welcome to the Forum buddy!!! Way to go, someone got you on video in a decent T/O! Sweet!

YOU should have won MOST INNOVATIVE at the banquet, but...let's not go there, LOL. The other gyro that did win didn't even fly, and they beat you out because they were bigger, more powerful, and looked really slick, can you believe it? You pulled it off though, you DID it! A COrdless Dewalt??? WoW!!! Congrats, you must return :D
 
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Very well done. Congratulations to both Erik and Clark. Persistance pays off.


Dino
 
Clark´s 2:nd VTO movie

Clark´s 2:nd VTO movie

Hi Clark!
I am glad you finally joined this group. Welcome!
To show the guys in the group what you can do with a cordless Dewalt, I enclose the video you sent me this morning. (shot by your daughter Debbie)
I was proud to see you have my logo on your tail rudder.

Clark VTO 2, Aug 2011 - YouTube

Notice Clark kept the rockets running a couple of seconds after lift-off. Provides lift from wind PLUS the rockets
 
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Yes Mentone was a lot of fun . Espesily at the campfire .
The music was vary good - Thanks . Look foward to seeing
You next year . We can keep in touch here .Thanks Again


Clark
 
That was a neat takeoff! I don't know what you have for controls there but it seems that if a pressure regulator was adjusted for the rrpm desired, one would just need to press a button for a solenoid valve when ready for spin-up and release it when well on your way.

I was thinking about a system like this for my rotor but the thrusters could be smaller due to the blades 0° AoA during spin-up…..
 
Using the tip rockets while in the air.

Using the tip rockets while in the air.

Clark sent me a new video. He is taking off from the backyard of a house again. I notice that he uses the rockets during 7 - 8 seconds also AFTER lift off, and I think i notice that this is increasing his climb rate.
This makes me more convinced one can use tip rockets as a compensation for an under powered propeller engine: If for example the gyrocopter descend while doing a turn (banking) because of a too small propeller engine, one can compensate by using the tip rockets and make the gyro climbing
Using lighter low cost engines plus tip rockets would open up new possibilities!
Am I right? Do you agree?

Autogyro Jump TO with rotor tip rockets - YouTube
 
You'd have higher propellant costs, and the rockets would also become a system critical for flight. I think I'd rather budget for an engine I could count on.

But you're right...it would be comparable to the thinking behind hybrid cars.
 

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Hi Paul,
I understand your position, but the question is what is POSSIBLE to do with the tip rockets while in the air. (Even if I understand you would not go for it...)
I wrote an article on my website were I describe my visions in more detail;
www.peroxidepropulsion.com/article/27

Hi André,
It would be great if you built a gyrocopter as per your ideas, so we could compare the performence side by side in real life.
You could team up with Bob Barret. He has been working with compressed air tip rockets for 14 years. See
http://www.barrettair.com/Products.aspx Click on "Comming in the future"
 
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the Coolist Way to TAKEOFF

the Coolist Way to TAKEOFF

To do this for the first time was vary extining .
It gets more comfertable every time . There was a stick shake that I learned to controle when the blades reached just past normal RPM .
( When the blades start to give down thrust ) Do you understand ?
Rember I am using a varible speed Dualt drill .
This is the Coolist Way to TAKEOFF in a Gyro. it will start out on takeoff at a 70 deg. angel for the first 4 feet then go straight up (it done right) Just like flying at El Marge Dry Lake in Caifornia when the wind blowes good . The only differance is this rocket system lifts up fast , and in total controle
This is where I agree on controlining the thrust with RPM with a pushbutton .

I am working on it

Clark Cogan H2O2
 
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