Very confused..

[raton]

raton I sort of thought that trying to have a discussion with you would be non productive.


However I thought I would give it a try.

I'll go back into reading and let the others here play your game until it gets boring...

Birdy usually gets it right and I share his opinion of your posts.

If you call a productive discussion comparing a Lyc to a Subaru engine for different applications of course is not very productive. I agree with you, birdy get’s it right all the time, that is.. for his application and I am happy for you to share with him his knowledge, I differ. I am sorry ,I couldn’t play your game.

raton

 

[raton]

I wish you all the luck in the world!!!

Thank you, will need it.

raton

 

[raton]

My facetious comment aside, I suppose we take an expert to be someone who has full command of all the facts and with the experience to back his knowledge up.

Yes, I agree fully with you.

 

[Mayfield]

Raton,

Folks here really want to be helpful. Many will unselfishly share their knowledge with anyone.

To make our interaction more meaningful; could you share a little about your background?

Are you a pilot? Engine guru with practical experience? Engineer?

Regards,

Jim Mayfield

 

[HobbyCAD]

Raton, please answer Mayfield's question.

Raton, please answer Mayfield's question.

Raton,

Folks here really want to be helpful. Many will unselfishly share their knowledge with anyone.

To make our interaction more meaningful; could you share a little about your background?

Are you a pilot? Engine guru with practical experience? Engineer?

Regards,

Jim Mayfield

Mr Raton, I must admit, I would like you to answer the question. If you're a bit hesitant, why so, you sure have a quick kneejerk reaction to answering all posts in this thread. If it helps you, we'll post our background as well.... Do you feel like playing the game .......

 

[raton]

Raton,

Folks here really want to be helpful. Many will unselfishly share their knowledge with anyone.

To make our interaction more meaningful; could you share a little about your background?

Are you a pilot? Engine guru with practical experience? Engineer?

Regards,

Jim Mayfield

Of course.. PM send
raton

 

[raton]

Mr Raton, I must admit, I would like you to answer the question. If you're a bit hesitant, why so, you sure have a quick kneejerk reaction to answering all posts in this thread. If it helps you, we'll post our background as well.... Do you feel like playing the game .......

Being polite and having some spare between cuppas time love the interaction and if there is any technical related question relating Subaru engines I might be able to help. Regarding backgrounds is only as good as the advice or suggestion given. No games, someone life might depend on it.

raton

 

[birdy]

I'll go back into reading and let the others here play your game until it gets boring...
Boring?? nah, its still entertaining.

And you blokes stop pressur'n poor ol Raton, or he's likely to sulk n go home, and id loose the dayly laugh.

But im thinkn ol mate Darwin will be stepn in, in the not too distant future.
You can lead a horse to water........................ .

The first indication of any critter haven even the slightest bit of inteligence, is its ability to learn, from experiance.
If you dont learn from experiance, prepare to meet Darwin.

 

[Harry_S.]

Mr Raton, I must admit, I would like you to answer the question. If you're a bit hesitant, why so, you sure have a quick kneejerk reaction to answering all posts in this thread. If it helps you, we'll post our background as well.... Do you feel like playing the game .......

Personally, I'd like to see everyone do an informatory adjunct to their bio; just a name and location don't say much at all.


Cheers

 

[All_In]

I'll go back into reading and let the others here play your game until it gets boring...
Boring?? nah, its still entertaining.

And you blokes stop pressur'n poor ol Raton, or he's likely to sulk n go home, and id loose the dayly laugh.

But im thinkn ol mate Darwin will be stepn in, in the not too distant future.
You can lead a horse to water........................ .

The first indication of any critter haven even the slightest bit of inteligence, is its ability to learn, from experiance.
If you dont learn from experiance, prepare to meet Darwin.

When I first found this site, I to had selected a Sub as the engine I was going to use.

Then you pro's taugh me that it would cost more to actually have it upgraded to an aircraft engine with 2 plugs, better seals etc.

I also discovered that sub's were designed for car and really last longer if driven with rpm changes like in a car not run at a constant rpm. It will but not made for it.

Then when I looked at the cooling system and its added weight penalty + the engine weight penalty and did a weight and balance comparing it with a rotax weight and balance for the exact same aircraft. There was no contest, I could take off in a shorter distance, climb higher, cruse faster and longer, and fly much further into the flight envelope.
Like I said same facts two different conclusions, I thank you guys for teaching most of this to me and very grateful!

 

[Heron]

Are you guys still talking engines? He already picked one up . . .
How he wants to talk about frames and cabins available, very few indeed.
I don´t think is doable, it will be like making another machine.
Maybe a SH will be it. I would like to see a Xenon with a Sub on it!
Buy one, swap the engine and sell the Rotax . . .
Heron

 

[bones]

Are you guys still talking engines? He already picked one up . . .
How he wants to talk about frames and cabins available, very few indeed.
I don´t think is doable, it will be like making another machine.
Maybe a SH will be it. I would like to see a Xenon with a Sub on it!
Buy one, swap the engine and sell the Rotax . . .
Heron

Yep then completely redo the cheek plates, the prerotator, possibly the mast, ect ect ect for the extra weight on the back, al the other stuff that does seem appearent :noidea:

 

[raton]

When I first found this site, I to had selected a Sub as the engine I was going to use.

Then you pro's taugh me that it would cost more to actually have it upgraded to an aircraft engine with 2 plugs, better seals etc.

I also discovered that sub's were designed for car and really last longer if driven with rpm changes like in a car not run at a constant rpm. It will but not made for it.

Then when I looked at the cooling system and its added weight penalty + the engine weight penalty and did a weight and balance comparing it with a rotax weight and balance for the exact same aircraft. There was no contest, I could take off in a shorter distance, climb higher, cruse faster and longer, and fly much further into the flight envelope.
Like I said same facts two different conclusions, I thank you guys for teaching most of this to me and very grateful!

While you can find excellent information here about gyros, however car engines have proven far more reliable than propose build aircraft engine. There is no money for research and most of the aircraft engines are based on a design from the 60 and still using the same materials, tolling and parts. Moderns car engine virtually don’t need maintenance at all for over 100.000k ! Nowadays, car engines are designed with the latest alloys and quasi fails safe electronics, no need for another hole at the C/H . RAF sold over 500 + gyros all fitted with Subaru EJ22/25, pretty well proven engines, whilst some US certified aircraft engines had a raft crankcase failures. Certified is no guarantee of quality, only a guarantee of more money

Then you pro's taugh me that it would cost more to actually have it upgraded to an aircraft engine with 2 plugs, better seals etc.

Was he a pink galah..? For a confessed book-worm like you , you are pretty well uninformed..

raton

 

[raton]

Are you guys still talking engines? He already picked one up . . .
How he wants to talk about frames and cabins available, very few indeed.
I don´t think is doable, it will be like making another machine.
Maybe a SH will be it. I would like to see a Xenon with a Sub on it!
Buy one, swap the engine and sell the Rotax . . .
Heron

Ainda sonhando ..?

raton

 

[HobbyCAD]

....Certified is no guarantee of quality, only a guarantee of more money .....

You guy's, Raton has struck a note here, that I am sometimes worried about...

You can buy a certified Lycoming, or an uncertified Lycoming. When you surf the RV crowd's sites, they advertise them as such. You can buy a certified Rotax 912, or an uncertified Rotax 912, the UL suffix I understand.

Now what is the difference between the 2 engines of each brand? Has the one been made with other machinery, or assembled by apprentices rather than qualified guy's, or produced at the end of the weekly production runs, just before the machines have to be calibrated again?

I understand NO, they are exactly the same, parts come from the same bins in the stores. I was once told, the difference is, that when a manufacturer sells an aero engine as certified, they take out an insurance policy against that S/N engine. It's only a "paper" difference. The quality is the same. But when the certified one goes, there is payout to cover the warranty repair, litigation, what ever the effect is.

I would like to hear from you guy's, what is the difference between the 2 versions of the same engine.

Raton, no te contestas nada, no quero que escuchar algo mas de Subaru !!!

Regards,

Francois

 

[Chuck_Ellsworth]

RAF sold over 500 + gyros all fitted with Subaru EJ22/25, pretty well proven engines, whilst some US certified aircraft engines had a raft crankcase failures. Certified is no guarantee of quality, only a guarantee of more money



raton

You are sure using a high tech company to further your argument raton, yeh, for sure RAF was leading edge in aircraft design and ground breaking training.....ground breaking in that so many of their machines slammed into the earth taking the people in them for their last ride.

Yeh, you are really putting forth some impressive argument here raton.

 

[raton]

You are sure using a high tech company to further your argument raton, yeh, for sure RAF was leading edge in aircraft design and ground breaking training.....ground breaking in that so many of their machines slammed into the earth taking the people in them for their last ride.

Yeh, you are really putting forth some impressive argument here raton.

Oh.. Please, it had nothing to do with the choice of engines. Get the facts right ! And your argument is..?

raton

 

[Chuck_Ellsworth]

Oh.. Please, it had nothing to do with the choice of engines. Get the facts right ! And your argument is..?

raton

O.K. raton I am obviously bored at the moment so lets try another angle on this.

I have thousands of hours flying aircraft and helicopters with Lycoming power, so lets take the R22 which uses a de-rated 0-360.

Having owned a flight training school that used the R22 I found it to be the most reliable small aircraft engine in aviation.

Tell me about your flying experience and how many aircraft you have flown using Lycomings.

 

[raton]

O.K. raton I am obviously bored at the moment so lets try another angle on this.

I have thousands of hours flying aircraft and helicopters with Lycoming power, so lets take the R22 which uses a de-rated 0-360.

Having owned a flight training school that used the R22 I found it to be the most reliable small aircraft engine in aviation.

Tell me about your flying experience and how many aircraft you have flown using Lycomings.

Flying hours has nothing to do with the facts that car engines are more advanced than the currently aircraft engines.Sure the 0-360 is very nice engine and loves to the crack jugs too. Lyc current warranty is one year and 300 hours, for modern car engines warranty is one 3 years unlimited K lets translate this to aircraft engines and then we talk about reliability .

 

[mceagle]

I understand NO, they are exactly the same, parts come from the same bins in the stores. I was once told, the difference is, that when a manufacturer sells an aero engine as certified, they take out an insurance policy against that S/N engine. It's only a "paper" difference. The quality is the same. But when the certified one goes, there is payout to cover the warranty repair, litigation, what ever the effect is.

I understand it is as you said Francois - the same engine. With the Certified engine, you pay considerably more money for insurance that is useless to you anyway. It only covers the Bombardier Company against litigation arising from a failure..