G-1 Mods ????

rbrillhart

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Mar 28, 2011
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Youngstown, Ohio
I just ordered the G-1 plans. I know I know..... before I swamped with public opinion on the G-1, weight shift helicopters, and other info people have heard from the grape vine. Let me say this, Vortech sells the modified G-1 called G1-XL. It's basically a G-1 with a full functioning rotor head. They only sell it in kit form, no plans.

G1-XL Ultralight Helicopter Parts

I bought the G-1 plans so I can "Tinker"...

I have blueprints for several helicopters. Any suggestions on whose rotor head design I could use for my modified G-1 ? Choppy ? Furia ? Aeros ? Or go simple and use the OMH rotor head with a CV joint off of a car to power the rotor ?

Did anyone here ever modify the G-1 ?

Any suggestions on a super light 4 stroke engine I can use and still keep it "ultralight" weight ?
 
I got the plans in my hands. They seem to be modified from the originals I saw many years ago. A couple structural upgrades. They even call for an option build a tilt rotor head from "The Little Zipster". They also added some text to dimension some parts to fill in the blanks in the prints for those people who need their hands held during construction. All in all I have bought crappier prints for more money. Now lets see if we can get it to fly !!!

Any suggestions on rotor heads other than the little zipster ??? Anybody ???
 
Hey RB. I actually built most of a G1 about 15 years ago. After wasting a lot of time and money finding parts and supplies I realized that if I finished all that I would have would be a contraption spinning blades held on with nylon sheet and a tail rotor that used spring door hinges.

With that being said you could use just about any conventional rotor head and swashplate system that you wanted to install. I like the Aeros rotorhead and swashplate. It is simple, easy to build and conventional. I think that the main issue with any small rotor head is finding suitable and reliable thrust bearings. Of course you could use elastomeric bearings but then they can cost as much as the whole machine. The tail rotor could still be belt driven but the whole tail rotor itself would need to be re-designed, the Aeros also has a very good tail rotor system that is easy to build.

There are several motorcycle engines that you could use.

I think just about everyone has thought about the G1 at some time. But keep in mind that there aren't any videos of the G1 or G1xl flying, hovering or even running up (as far as I know). I know there are a couple of pictures of the G1 "flying", or is it?

Well good luck on your project and keep us posted.
 
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I also built most of a G1 about 15 years ago just as a tinkering project. A divorce eliminated the project funding, and the ex took it for psych-ops effect.

There are several substantial problems with a G-1 that need worked out. #1 you can’t fly a weight shift helicopter, it just doesn’t really work. Theories are great until a tiny wind poofs you. Also, never fly a fixed pitch helicopter at any altitude higher than you intend to fall, as autorotation is not possible.

To make a G-1 a functional helicopter, you need a full collective rotor head, and full functioning (real) tail rotor. You can adapt those parts from different designs easily enough however.

The engine problem…the G-1 has the crankshaft(s) of the engine(s) mounted in the vertical axis. The original G1 used three 15 HP go-cart engines and never flew. To be honest, I don’t know of any engine manufacturer that authorizes such orientation under normal operating conditions. They can be in that orientation temporarily, such as in a loop-the-loop. The problem is that the weight of the crank shaft should generally not rest constantly on the thrust bushing at what is (now) the lower end of the engine, or it will polish it to oblivion in probably under 50 hours, even with 20:1 oil mix. The thrust bushings on the crankshaft ends of most 2 strokes are not intended to function is this manner for any length of time. I'm talking about snowmobile style engines here generally speaking.

This is not really a problem; you just need to mount the engine like you do in a big chopper with a horizontal crankshaft output. This however requires the use of a clutch, a gear box / 90 Deg angle transmission, and a final step down gear at the rotor head. Again this is not at all a problem…

It may seem funny, but a great 90 Deg angle transmission that is (DIRT) cheap to obtain and (EASY) to mount in a shop built frame is the lower part of the transom of a 75 to 90 HP outboard boat motor.

Of course you have to modify the input and output shafts at a machine shop and use appropriate drive shaft couplings, but the gearing in the transom helps step down engine RPM , which you will need to do anyway.

A second bonus of modifying the lower end of a boat motor transom is that it’s built out of aluminum, so it’s light weight. It’s also rated by HP which it is engineered for, so you know you won’t blow the angle drive under flight load.

If you are concerned that people will be alarmed in seeing a helicopter using an Evinrude boat transom as the right angle gear box, that is also not a problem. It’s easy to make a .040 aluminum cover to hide transmission from view. Most people will never know you are using it, unless they remove the cover plate and inspect.

I fully believe that you can make a G1-A for less than 254 pounds, but it will be close at the end. I truly think you can do it. You will want to aim for a 65HP or 70 HP air cooled engine, as you are turning engine power through a lot more bearing points than just an airplane engine does. You have the clutches assembly, 90Deg trans, tail rotor and associated bearings, and rotor head drive. Use 60 to 70 HP forced air engine like a Hirth or equivalent. You MUST have a force air engine, free air won’t cut it.

My G-1A had a 503 Fan cooled engine and and a 75 HP Evinrude transom mounted in the frame. The airframe frame was complete, and I was at about 120 Pounds, without the clutch, rotor hubs or blades. I'll dig around and see of I can find any old photos, I have them somewhere.

I know this project can be done, but it will be a challenge.
 

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@ Jon. Thanks for the input. I am looking at the Aeros plans right now. I think you might be right. I plan on using a shaft driven tail rotor with lovejoy connector and a 90 deg box.

@ Ironcowboy. You are right about the weight shift and the wind. I am interested in the G-1 as a starting design for an ultralight helicopter. To be completely honest, it slipped my mind about the vertical engine. I guess it never registered because the Lonestar helicopters use them in that configuration.


http://www.rotorfx.com/helicopters_for_sale/images/Lonestar_Sport_Helicopter_20080810_002.JPG
http://www.rotorfx.com/helicopters_for_sale/images/Lonestar_Sport_Helicopter_20080810_001.JPG


I do agree with you about the transmission idea and I love it. I will build it this way.

I just have to figure out the size and length of the blades. Then figure out tip velocity and work backwards thought the transmission, gear reductions, and then to the engine.

I know 2 strokes are lighter, but 4 strokes are more dependable. LOL Having an engine out in a helicopter is not one of my favorite things to look forward to.

I love the insight and advice you guys are giving me. PLEASE keep it coming. It is not falling on deaf ears.

Richard
 
Richard,

Most people would prefer to fly under the reliability of a 4 stroke engine, however when you are attempting to build an ultralight, weight will be the absolute ruling factor in all that you do and I think you will find that you will need to use a light weight 2 stroke to be able to accomplsih your goal. Take a look at other ultralight helicopters (that have actually flown) and learn from what has been proven to work (unless you have lots of time and money to throw at experimenting with lots of new ideas) to come up with something that will meet your needs. Best of luck!
 
Yes, that Rotor FX is just about what you end up with when you finish modifying a G1. You reorient the engine for horizontal mounting.

The engine drive shaft exits out the rear pointing toward the tail rotor, the clutch is back there, and one end of the clutch goes onto the modified boat transom drive shaft. The transom is pointing back toward the main rotor mast, and the 90 angle of the main drive line occurs right behind the main rotor mast.

The main rotor drive line actually passes through a hole bored in the tail rotor boom. You can take power off the driven clutch where it connects to the transom to run the tail rotor. If you use a tail rotor shaft drive, you will of course need a second 90 angle box.

You will have to fabricate an oil-seal to keep the oil in the transom assembly where the drive line exits on the clutch end.

The only way you can make this an ultralight is with a 2 stroke, fan cooled. I don't know how much a 582 Rotax liquid cooled weighs with the radiator and coolant system added.
 
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Here is a photo of a G-1 I built years ago in Montana, I sold it, and I don't know if it was ever flown.

VortecG-1M.jpg
 
gear box

gear box

the gear box from a shaft driven motorcycle works great,I had one from a gold wing on a A/W Hobbycopter, it was light weight and very easy to make an adapter to the rotor shaft with.
 
IronCowboy,

You stated: "#1 you can’t fly a weight shift helicopter, it just doesn’t really work." What about Siebel's helo? Great thread. There has alwasy been so much of a hazy view around the G1.

Regards,

Dave

envision rotor systems blog
 
Didn't Siebel also drop that method pretty quickly because it didn't allow sufficient control? Seems like I recall that anyways...
 
Brett,

He had to put a modification on it becasue it had a tendency to flip over in a low hover and the CG was manipulated............something to that effect.

http://collectair.com/cessna.html

Dave
 
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