Looking for that Ideal First Gyro.

[Hallofo]

Howdy all, as I alluded to in other posts, I have yet to "get high" on Gyro's, but I have been interested for many years.

That said, I am going to start planning now, and begin construction within a year or so on my First Gyro. I would start now, but I found out that the Marines recalled me and I have to spend a fun-filled year in the sandbox. Thats fine though, that will give me more than enough time to research and fine tune any designs.

What I need is a good list of Gyro's to consider, their various strengths and weaknesses, along with some "gut feelings" you guys (and gals) have. I would MUCH rather learn from others mistakes and experiences than to make them all on my own. As has been said before, this is a hobby (obsession?) that is none to forgiving of errors.

Anyhoo, to help cut down the list a little, I thought up a few things that I am looking for and how important they all are to me, here it goes:

1: I'm fat. (well, not THAT fat). By the time I fly I plan to be about 230
to 240 ish. Keep in mind that this is "skinny" to me, compared to the last 2
years. *very important*

2: I'm tall. At 6'4" many models and designs are simply to small for me to fit in.
*very important*

3: I want to fish. A model that is designed to fit floats* would be nice. If not,
a design that can be easily modified would be groovy as well.
*somewhat important, but not a whole lot*

4: I have lots of time, but not lots of money. I'm going to be overseas as a
Marine for a year, and then another year or two as a civilian contractor
($$$$$) so I have much time, but I still need to be as thrifty as possible.
The $$$ from contracting is to pay off the house and Med School.
*pretty important*

5: Weight. I would very much like to make this an ultralight Gyro, just
because. *moderately important*

6: Options. I figure if I can start with a basic, sturdy Gyro and as time and
cash become available, throw on the bells and whistles later instead of
getting a second Gyro. *not really important*

Well, thats all I can think of for now. Thanks for any input you can offer! I was strongly considering a GyroBee with a 503, but I know there might be better options out there for me.

My memory of .103 is a little rusty, do floats count against the overall weight of the Gyro as far as "ultralight" classification is concerned?

 

[Timchick]

Good luck overseas. With your weight I don't think you'll be able to stay ultralight and have enough power. A dominator with a Rotax 582 would be a good one to consider.

 

[Friendly]

Butterfly and Aircommand as well,
Forget the floats or get a fixed wing with floats, gyros don't like them, I don't think you are going to find an instructor who would advise you to start or finish on floats. Just my opinion

 

[Hallofo]

well, its looking more and more like I'm going to have to bite the bullet and get my License. Well, that will open at least a few doors for me as far as Gyro selection!

 

[Sir Real]

We are of similar sizes, you & I (6'4", 285, hoping to get back to 240). Like you, I have yet to fly in a gyro, but I've been researching for the past year, and here is what seems to make sense for those of us of more noble proportions & limited pocketbooks (At least on paper)

1) You will likely have to restrict yourself to open-air designs. There are some very good, safe, relatively affordable enclosed models, but we probably won't be comfortable folding ourselves into one.

2) Make sure it's stable. I'm a coward, so I'll likely stick with a Centerline Thrust model, but CLT is not a garauntee of stability, and a properly stabilized High Thrustline model can be just as safe.

3) Make sure you get yourself below 250 lbs. That tends to be the upper weight limit for most instructors & their machines (and you WILL need good, comprehensive training).

4) As for specific manufacturers, Dominator & the newer Air Commands seem to be good choices, and have a decent track record. I also like the Butterfly line a lot, and they have a few good-looking safety innovations, as well as a suitable weight limit. I haven't heard of any problems yet, but they're not quite as established as some others. They are also a bit on the pricier side, but in this case, I think you're getting what you pay for.

Pros & cons of some of the more popular models:

Butterfly: good design, CLT, good features, good weight/size capabilities. Not many flying yet, sort of expensive.

Dominator: much better price, CLT, good track record, lots of them out there. Slightly reduced weight limits & speed.

Air Command: Recently redesigned with an eye towards safety, long history, good looking, not overly expensive. HTL, older models had poor safety record, but newer models seem to be doing better

Sparrowhawk: Very good looking, good design, reliable, good performance. Enclosed cabin, a little pricey.

Gryobee: Extremely affordable, good "First Gyro", not too complex. Not a "Heavy Lift" machine.

Xenon & Magni: Tops in performance, style, comfort, size & weight capability; Magni has been around awhile. Xenon is relatively new, both are EXTREMELY pricey.

If anyone wants to add to this, or point out where I'm completely off base, please feel free.

Kurt Franz

 

[Doug Riley]

Peter, stability IS very important. Flaots absolutely wreck the stability of the typical pusher gyro. I suggest you stick to land-based gyros until you become quite proficient. Even then, a customed-designed tractor gyro would be a much better match to floats than a pusher.

Many gyros are not set up for long-legged folk. My legs used to crunch way up in my old Air Command, resulting in sore knees after a day of flying. Simple designs like the Gyrobee, however, are easily stretched in front for taller pilots. I did just that on my post-Air Command gyros.

To lift your weight, you should consider larger engines, as others have noted. These powerplants will put you outside part 103 by busting both the empty weight limit and the speed limit.

 

[Scary Gary]

Hay ! Hallofo
We have our PRA chapter 73 meeting's out at the Scapoos airport on the 2nd Saturday of the month . It's a bit of a drive for you but we are here . Sport copter is based there . They have nice gyro's but they are on the pricey side . But you get what you pay for .

 

[Hallofo]

Well everyone, thanks for all the tips and ideas. I'm pretty sure I'll just go the private pilot -> Gyro training route and build/buy a sport light 'Gyro. This will give me training in both conventional aircraft and our little "almost choppers". It will cost a *lot* more, both in training and equipment, but I aim to fly for oh, I don't know, the next 70 years or so. So I have the time to do it right and avoid the "smoking hole" effect. I may be rabidly hungry to go fly, but there is no reason to rush so fast that I do it only once...:flame::rip:

 

[animal]

Good way to think about it Peter, take your time. learn to fly the machines,then you are good to go. there are always great gyros that come up for sale.

like ya said don't want to get in a hurry and be a smokeing hole.

hey at least you will take time to learn to put the blades on right..

I bet that other guy is wishing about now he had.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress, both training and on getting a gyro.

 

[rogerdodger]

Sand Box

Sand Box

Greetings Hallofo and keep yourself safe. Dont trust anyone but your own.
It will be fun researching all the gyros available and it will help pass your time.
GOD bless you!

Seimper Fi

THANK YOU!!!!!!

 

[Hallofo]

Well, I pretty much set my sights on a Midnight-Hawk

(https://www.gyro-kopp-ters.com/midnight.htm).

The specs look good on paper as far as lifting my, um, "well endowed" bottom, and the kit price looks even better.

(and yes animal, I'll put the friggin' blades on right! )

So, I got the choices pretty much cut down to the MidHawk or stretched-out GyroBee , now It's just a matter of getting the money, time, kit and training. Easy!

 

[scottessex]

Don't let price be your only guideline.

How many of these "midnight hawks" are flying?
You are going to spend between $8-20k just as if you were going to build a custom motorcycle, or kit car.

Buying a midnight hawk, I'm afraid would be false economy by the time you redid everything to get it to fly.

 

[ultracruiser41]

Midnight hawk....no...no!

 

[Timchick]

Pass on the Midnight Hawk! Do a search on the forum for other's experiences with them.

 

[Hallofo]

Yeah, yeah. I read the threads on the 'Hawk and that pretty much decided it for me. The kits for a GyroBee look pretty good, and the quoted price includes the engine, which is nice. There also seems to be a fairly large number of them flying compared to other models, making support a lot easier to come by.

Scott: Price is only one of my guidelines, I saw that a 'Hawk looked good on paper (price being on said paper) and I decided to ask 'yall about it. I'm glad I asked and read up on them, or I might have made a fairly big mistake!

So... the new "list" (in order) would seem to be a GyroBee or a Dominator. 'Bee's look a little easier to put together, have a large following and (get ready for it) are less expensive (but not "cheap").
Domi's look sexy and also have a large following, but to put 60+ HP engine on it to get me "up there" would kick me right in the wallet-balls.

An "Ultra" Bee kit with bigger blades (for a bigger me) and the 60HP engine they offer would set me back about 16-18k (rounded up, plus shipping, etc...) where the same thing on a Domi would be along the lines of 25k.

Just to assure you, its NOT all about money, its about quality and safety (for me). The Gyrobees's and Domi's both seem to be safe, reliable aircraft with a large following and few "cons" to go along with them, the deciding factor is more along the lines of taste. Something like deciding between a Chevy and a Lexus. Both will get you from A to B in a fairly safe manner, but do you want to shell out the extra 40 grand to do it in style? (Personally, I think the idea of "flying" is about as stylish as is gets!)

Thanks again for the advice!

 

[Adam H]

I think you are heading in the right direction with the Dominator and the Gyrobee. We have both in our club and both see a lot of flight time. Both are proven designs with many examples flying and a lot of support only a few keystrokes away. FYI, Starbee a a very good company to do business with, great customer service and the prices are fair.

 

[scottessex]

Just see if you can acquire a dominator ultrawhite and then put a 582 on it.

Last time I checked.....I,m sure prices have gone up since then
You could buy a dominator airframe new from Ernie (blades prerotator etc included)
for about $7.5-8K with out the engine.
Then buy a 582, new or used your choice.
Or set the cash aside and jump on the first one that comes up for sale!

Of course this just throws more options in the mess and makes it harder to pick and choose.

 

[Hallofo]

Ah, yes scott, I see where I made the mistake. I was getting Domi price info from

https://www.rotorscooter.com/

They seem to bump the price ever so slightly. Now it's even HARDER to decide. Though as I said, the Domi does look like teh sexyness. And it has those robust shocks on it so I may yet get that wish or flying out into the boonies to fish!

 

[animal]

Peter if you can get the Dominatior,I think you would be very happy with it.

I can tell you for a fact that the Dominatior gear is what you will want if you try and land in the boonies to fish.

I rode with Ron Awad right before christmas in his 2 seat Dominatior,and he was demoing what it could do and he did a rolling touch and go landing in a plowed feild and I was impressed.

If I had the money for a Dominatior it would be my choice.

But for right now I will just have to settle for my falcon.

 

[gyrodeputy]

Im just curious, what is wrong with the midnight hawk???