Rant about the media, Fossett and flight plans...

[barnstorm2]

:rant:

Pardon me for this but.. I just have to blow a gasket and rant for a few moments.

As many of us have I have been trying to follow the Fossett search.

What keeps coming up in the media (and thus also people I talk too) is this absurd notion that he should have filed a flight plan!!

ARRGGHH!!

It seems the "media" thinks that every %#$$^ flight has to have a %$#$^ flight plan and if you do not you are breaking some kind of mortal law.

CNN and others bitch and bitch about this!!

I FINALLY heard a fantastic bit of coverage on this last week when I was listening to AeroNews Pod-cast and Paul Plack actually mentioned how badly the media was covering Fossett and the flight plan issue and clearly explained why Fossett did not file a plan and why it would not have helped. I was cheering so loudly I almost drove off the road into a ditch.

Today, I am reading more Fossett stories and a new one about a dumb Lawyer who dropped his kids off at a neighbors house for soccer practice in his R-22 and guess what? More media bitching about flight plans!!

We really need to find a way to educate the media about this crap.

They feel they can make pronouncements and judgements on these issues but they are not willing to take the time to understand what they are even talking about! WTF!!!!

Examples:

http://www.venturacountystar.com/news/2007/sep/06/fossett-not-a-daredevil-camarillo-woman-says/

Here is a story that came up on my RSS feed. I thought "Oh thank goodness, a story to set people straight". This woman pilot attempts to counter the rampant media accusations of Fosset's "dare devil" attitude of not filing a flight plan ect. Well, she did a poor job or the editor did a poor job of getting the point across and look what the 1st reply post is (this guy writes like a pilot but I think he is not...at least I hope not!! )

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Posted by rebel123 on September 7, 2007 at 2:27 p.m. (Suggest removal)

He didn't file a flight plan and to suggest that because he spent so much time in the air it was not necessary is ignorant. As every good pilot knows, a flight plan may not save you from a crash, it will make it a whole lot easier to find you if you go down. There are old pilots and there are bold pilots.....there are very few old bold pilots. I don't care how many times he was in the air everyday. If he'd filed a flight plan, they'd know where to look for him. Now they are searching a vast area with little hope of finding him.....if he survived the crash and is injured, he could die in that time. Or for that matter, starve to death waiting to be found.

Posted by AnnaWhaat on September 7, 2007 at 6:41 p.m. (Suggest removal)

rebel123,I Agree no one never knows what can go wrong. Even if you trust the pilot what about the craft? I think everyone for thier safety should file a plan.

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Thankfully, There are a FEW candles in the darkness.

Here are a couple of good articles:

http://www.concierge.com/cntraveler/blogs/perrinpost/2007/09/fossetts-flight.html

http://www.sowbug.org/mt/2007/09/steve-fossett-and-flight-plans.html

If in discussions with "non-pilots" around work or friends PLEASE try to use the examples in these articles (especially the www.concierge.com one or Paul Plack's) to educate people about flight plans!hone:


Thank you for letting me bitch.... I will now return you to your regular programming....lane:

.

 

[StanFoster]

Tim- I hear ya! That got my goat as well. The media is notoriously stupid with no common sence. If I were to file a flight plan-it would look like this: N609SF departing 1C1 at low altitude-dipping and divin-crankin and bankin whenever a whimsical thought goes through my brain. I may investigate farmers wrestling with women in the back of a pickup-got to throw in a few emergency landing aproaches-after an hour or two I will end up at 1C1 with my flight finished. My GPS screens trail mode display will look like an etch-a-sketch after a 2nd grader had ahold of the knobs for an hour. Yea , come and find me- I will be somewhere along my flightplan. STAN

 

[INHERENTLY UNST]

cool post

cool post

Hey man :hippie: That was way cool.
It sounds just like my flight plans Stan.

Louis / Private pilot Gyroplane/ N269SS

___________________________

Gyros don't kill people, the lack of enough training does!
And mabe the government.:spy:

 

[scottessex]

Man, and I thought it was just that my GPS couldn't draw a straight line!

 

[Mayfield]

one about a dumb Lawyer who dropped his kids off at a neighbors house for soccer practice in his R-22

I suspect John Q public hears "flight plan" and thinks "plan the flight. Of course that's incorrect; but I bet a bunch of folks think a pilot is not required to plan a flight.

This guy probably does deserve to be snatched up by the stacking swivel for putting 3 people in a two seat helicopter.

Jim

 

[barnstorm2]

My GPS screens trail mode display will look like an etch-a-sketch after a 2nd grader had ahold of the knobs for an hour. Yea , come and find me- I will be somewhere along my flightplan. STAN

Ha! What a great discription! I will never look at my GPS screen the same again!

I can't draw smilie faces with a smoke machine but maybe I can on my GPS?

I suspect John Q public hears "flight plan" and thinks "plan the flight. Of course that's incorrect; but I bet a bunch of folks think a pilot is not required to plan a flight.

This guy probably does deserve to be snatched up by the stacking swivel for putting 3 people in a two seat helicopter.

Jim

Oh, good point! I missed that completely!

.

 

[PW_Plack]

My wife saw coverage on one of the major networks last week and asked me later, "When we go flying, you always file a flight plan, right?"

I told her "no," and why not; that the place we rented the plane had a note on the board with our planned itinerary, how not closing the flight plan properly or on time would be a violation and could be expensive, etc., and she understood. I don't know why the general media can't figure this stuff out.

Once ADS-B technology comes into common usage, we'll all generate Stan's Etch-A-Sketch trail in an FAA computer somewhere each time we fly, preserved for, probably, 10 days, which will make finding a downed pilot pretty easy and quick. Conspiracy theorists and those who worry about Big Brother don't like ADS-B, but it's only an incremental step beyond current radar tracking and the record it creates.

There's a system used by ham radio operators called APRS, for "Automatic Position Reporting System." It takes coordinates from a GPS receiver in a moving vehicle, formats a data packet, and transmits it periodically through a worldwide network. You can view the positions of reporting stations on a map in real time.

Here's a screen shot, showing then-current positions of reporting stations, listed by their callsigns. Other displays can draw map trails for individual stations as they move. I've seen some guys in the past actually post a "where-is" web page which showed their current whereabouts on road trips. ADS-B will do this for fliers.

Setting up an aircraft for ham radio APRS could cost $300 or less. ADS-B is likey to be far less wallet-friendly.

Fossett was wearing a Breitling Emergency Watch, which has a built in 121.5 MHz ELT, but must be activated manually, not good if you're lying somewhere unconscious. His Super Decathalon had an ELT of an older type known to have issues. For a guy with this much to lose, I think a 406 MHz ELT would have been a wise precaution.

Then again, hindsight is 20/20, and the planned flight was pretty tame by his standards. Given the stuff the guy has lived through, it is pretty amazing this happened on this flight.

I've heard of several cases in which extremely experienced pilots, including those with lots of aerobatic experience, died during flights which probably were so "boring" they didn't represent enough of a challenge to keep the pilots alert. In one, the pilot was distracted by taking pictures, and hit a hillside. Another was taking a realtor up to look at some property, became distracted in a steep low-level bank, stalled and spun.

I guess the stuff we think is dangerous keeps us on our toes, and the stuff we don't worry about becomes at least as big a danger.

You guys with cameras, be careful.

 

[animal]

Flight plan so you can be found if you crash.... Gee and I always thought that was what we carry ELT's for. beside if he got off course for some reason then a flight plan sure isn't going to help ya find him.

 

[LarryMc]

Rant about the media, Fossett....

Rant about the media, Fossett....

Hi Guys,
And rant you should because the "left-news media" knows perfectly well that there's no requirement for a flight plan and this omission pleads for intervention so that we eventually have to submit to "nanny-gate". We're all going to see repeated proposals for legislation on behalf of security, i.e., "new government funding schemes", user fees etc. One day we may be as frustrated as the English and the Aussies.
That said, you want to stay in touch with your Press, your State and Congressional Reps every time one of these issues comes up and rap em on the knuckles hard.

Larry McFarland

 

[murmur]

Paul, I noticed the other day that Peggy Fossett was reported as having said Steve didn't have the Breitling watch with him on the flight. The paraphrase of her statement is buried in here:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/13/fossett/index.html?section=cnn_latest

Dave

 

[kw_1996ne]

Hi Guys,
And rant you should because the "left-news media" knows perfectly well that there's no requirement for a flight plan and this omission pleads for intervention so that we eventually have to submit to "nanny-gate
Larry McFarland

Yes very true, we can all look forward to more laws and regulations, more groups of people that know nothing about what they are regulating and waite we already have that :sorry: IMHO its only going to get worse.


Jim

 

[M. Pearce]

Jim,

Ahhh, Government and Media, two birds in the bush hand in hand.

How is it, the Government controlls the Media or was it the other way around?

Lets see, the media is controlled by the FCC.

Ever wonder why it's so darn easy to get into this country but so darn hard to get out?

We are all gonna be in part one big prison type tax revinue milling machine one day and and owned by world banks.

Fligh without a flight plan will be a felony offence.

We have the seatbelt law, why not the flight plan law next?

Unscheduled stops will be investigated as conspiracy to commit something illegal.

They will just jerk your license and leave it up to you to prove your innocent to get it back.

 

[JByrd]

You fellows really have it down. It's your way or the highway.

I am one of those dumb bastards who is voluntarily obligated with US TAXPAYER dollars to come look for you if you (or me) do not show up on time.

Now, if I have [something other than] hearsay or antidotal evidence of where you (and/or perhaps your family) might be then I am likely to spend a lot less of my time and your tax money looking for you.

As a technical requirement, the organization I belong to goes for 70% probability of detection and that is it - the search is suspended unless new evidence is reported. Moreover, we take additional risks flying in unusual patterns and often marginal weather looking for you while your additional cadre of flying friends who do not have that kind of training or specialized equipment create additional flight hazards. We do not discourage them, but they often do not know how to effectively interact.

So the next time you piss away the opportunity to file a flight plan when flying more than 25-50 miles from home - remember this...

If you are alive, we might find you and bring the right services to bear before you expire unnessarily (alone).

If you are suffering, we might help relieve your suffering sooner.

If you are dead, we might more quickly help relieve the suffering of those concerned over your fate to those who are close to you.

It does not matter if you give a rats ass or not. We will be looking for you and spending taxpayer money on volunteer time taking carefully managed personal risks.

I have found enough dead aviators already to had enough of this conceited kind of "it aint going to happen to me and who gives a **** if it does" thinking.

The next time you [do] fill out, file, activate, and most importantly - close a flight plan remember you are doing it for yourself, your family, for the people I work with, and lastly, me.

So think it over.

Thank you.

Jim Byrd

 

[Resasi]

Public misconceptions are an irritant and most of us do do it in some form or another, but this is obviously another one of those sensitive fracture points.

Autogyro's represents a personal freedom and rapidly disapearing frontier but there is obvious sense in the concept of informing someone of an intended flight. If not a detailed route at the very least a general area and general intention.

We are all concious of the steady enroachment of regulation in every aspect of our lives, but some things are just sensible things to do. Letting someone, know, either with a flight plan, verbaly or even a brief note is not a hard thing and might just save one's ass one day.

I am not that up on the details, but just what information had Steve Fossett left about his intentions on that particular flight? An example of a point Paul made, on one of his record attempts he would have been followed every inch of the way, but because it was round the pea patch it might just have been something that was considered un-important overlooked and may just have been a factor in him not making it.

 

[kc0iv]

Jim said:

So the next time you piss away the opportunity to file a flight plan when flying more than 25-50 miles from home - remember this...

While this might be a noble concept. However, the question is -- Could the system handle the load if every pilot filed a flight plan? I don't think so.

Think about how short of distance 50 miles is. Just to fly from the north end of Kansas City to it's southern city limits is over to 50 miles.

Leon
(kc0iv)

 

[Sir Real]

The issue in this particular case, as Stan so graphically pointed out, was that Fossett was not flying cross country. He was planning to return to the same airport he had departed from and was just flying around looking at the landscape with no set itinerary. Which, in my opinion, is the best reason and way to fly. So a flight plan would have been useless.

That being said, as a VFR-only pilot, I file a flight plan every time I DO go cross country. It's pretty easy, and it's cheap insurance. The one time I forgot to close my plan, all that happened was that the orginization of which Jim is a member, and which he seems reluctant to name, called the FBO about an hour after I was scheduled to close the plan, the FBO looked on the flightline and verified that the plane was there, and called me to gently chide me for forgetting to close. No problems, no drama.

 

[TomCarlisle]

Back in the late 50s and early 60s, part of my duties in SAC was to investigate EVERY incident in which one of our Airmen might show up in the newspapers (called an SIR [serious incident report]) Curtis Lemay wanted to know what actually happened before the papers came out. In every incident that I investigated, the newspaper story had NO resembalance to the actual event. They wanted it to always be sensational.

 

[barnstorm2]

Jim,

I don't think anyone here is advocating NOT filing a flight plan under circumstances in which one would be useful.

Rather, the media's failure (Mr Plack thankfully excluded) to have the faintest idea of what they are talking about and RAILING Fossett for not filing one when frankly a flight plan would not have helped in this case.

It seems as if there is a check list somewhere that the media uses that says "if accident or missing aircraft did not file a flight plan complain about how they are not required as if it is some kind of tragic oversight".

Indeed if I were flying a point-to-point cross country with an expected time frame it would be in my best interest to file a plan.

However, (Stan put it better than I) if I am going out sight seeing and returning to the same airport the flight plan would be of no use.

BTW, thank you for being part of the search crews that rescue our sorry buts...

.

 

[kw_1996ne]

I think that a mis-communication has occurred. I do not think that anyone here has complained about the search and rescue efforts. I think that we all sometimes take the S & R for granted. And they never get enough credit or thanks. What we are complaining about is the media knowingly giving false reports, and if it is not knowingly then they need to get the facts. What they are doing now is more like watching Texas Walker. I have seen so many times that the media has out right lied or didn't get the facts. But facts do not sell as good as drama dose. We have the media reporting where the president is when our country is under attack. Maybe we need to start having a bunch of anti media people regulate the media, or make a law that the media cant release anything until its a week old. But the media has to be made accountable for what they publish. At this time the press has the freedom to print or release over the air what ever they want without much fear of anything so much as a slap on the hand in the back office. Yes we can file a lawsuit and take them to court, but who in the general public has the money and time to spend fighting with them. I dint have any answers and I wish that I did. But I would like to thank all of the S & R that has spent time and money looking for Mr. Fossett. As Mr Mark Pearce said "Lets see, the media is controlled by the FCC." Just what dose the FCC control, it sure isnt the content of facts or fiction. It might be their job, but they should at least show up to work one day or two a year.


Jim

 

[barnstorm2]

Jim,

Great post.

I completely agree, this issue at hand is media inaccuracy, jumping to conclusions with out understanding the available data (if any) and pretending to have authoritative information when they in fact do not.

One thing I don't agree with is New Laws or any restriction on the freedom of the press.

I am (mostly) Libertarian and feel that the government does a crappy job of almost everything and does not make a good babysitter. Laws tend to be made by lawmakers that do not fully understand what they are regulating nor the ramifications of those laws ( unless of course it involves putting money in their pockets or the pockets of their friends and motivators).

Are you a Libertarian and don't know it? test here : ( http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html )

But I digress.

The point I wanted to suggest is...

Rather then legislate perhaps a "Accuracy Rating System" could be put in place and the news services rated bi-yearly on how accurate and correct the information has been presented and if presented incorrectly, if it was ever corrected.

I have some very personal experience with media inaccuracy involving a aircraft incident.

When I wrecked my gyroplane HALF of the news services reported it as a Helicopter and called me a Helicopter pilot. Interestingly they got my name not from the police or the airport but from looking up my N-number which clearly stated that the craft was a gyroplane.

Also, of interest was they incorrectly reported that I was injured and that I was taken to the hospital. One station interviewed a county sheriff that arrived only after the wreckage was being removed and he just "lit up" when they put the camera on him. He proceeded to tell the news crew (as if he was some kind of pilot and expert on aircraft engineering) that the "helicopter" would have been safer if it would have had a "cabin" because those kinds of helicopters provide a great deal more protection for the 'passengers'.

Of course my gyroplane did indeed have a partial enclosure (made of carbon fiber BTW) and was not a Helicopter and cabins crush quite readily providing little additional protection in a fall from any great altitude or speed. There may even be an aurgument that fuel containment is more dangers in a fully enclused machine.... My carbon fiber partial enclosure is certainly better then the clear plexiglass bubble around the heli's owned by my friends...

It did not occur to anyone to ask why the aircraft was no where near the helipad if it was a helicopter....rather that it was on the runway. (my front nosewheel had collapsed)

And of course the initial FAA report contained a number of errors but that is another topic all together....

.