Left stick, right stick?

[M. Pearce]

Paul,

Wo! Wo! Wo!!!!!

Do you really need to throw ole Razerback that far out into the deep.

It's a single place he's building.

He doesn't even know what the rotation is at this point.

Besides here in the states our toilets flush in a clockwise rotation.

If it were me I'd put the darn thing as far away from the passenger as possible.

It's gonna be a freaky ride so when his passengers freak out they will be looking to grab anything they can git their hands on.

Keep it simple! Keep it safe! Keep it outta the passengers hands!!!!! Just in case a two seater is ever developed.

 

[rtfm]

Hi guys,
Well, I have to say I found your comments quite hard to take. And a little condescending, Mark. I'm unschooled, not stupid. And speaking about me in your post as though I weren't there is a little rude also.

Hey, look, I'm not wishing to start a nasty exchange, just to say that this isn't the first time I've been told by people who know more than I do that my project is doomed, I'm not up to it, I'm doing it wrong etc. I've had this sort of response to things I've initiated all my life, and I've never failed. Not even once. I'll succeed in this one too.

And having unburdened myself of this, I have to blush a bit, because I've come to realise this afternoon that the plug I've spent months working on has to be scrapped, and I have to start again. I've posted a more detailed explanation in "The Razorback sees daylight" thread if you're interested.

Regards,
Duncan
:boom:

 

[rtfm]

Duncan, no offense.... But reading some of your questions in various threads makes me think you really should be getting regular gyro training and building a known reputatable normal gyro kit and flying it for at least a few months before trying to re invent the wheel with your razorback gyro. You obviously don't know enough about gyros yet.

Hi,
You've always been quite supportive of my efforts, and I realise that this was written out of a genuine concern that I'm out of my depth. Thank you for taking the time and trouble.

Prompted by your post, I phoned a local CFI to arrange lessons. The way I figure it, I'm going to be buys for YEARS building this bloody thing. And I'm building it because I want to fly. But because I'm taking so long, I'm not flying. So the answer is simple: take lessons while I build. That way I get to fly, I learn first hand about gyros and what they can/can't do, and besides, its fun. In fact, if I can lay my hands on a bit of cash, I might just think of buying a 2nd hand gyro and fly it while I build (once I have my gyro licence, of course).

Regards,
Duncan

 

[bones]

Ron and Mark ,,, ummm where would we all be if the likes of Dr Benson and friends listened to people like you when they were starting out,,, i think its great that people like Duncan are thinking outside the square, bloody hell he MIGHT just stummble across the perfect comprimise between a pusher and tractor, fair enough if you are putting money into it,,,, but as far as im aware he is funding this himself, i say good on ya Duncan,,, the only stupid question is one not asked isnt it???? At the very least if it works it will be a neat looking gyro..

 

[mceagle]

I phoned a local CFI to arrange lessons. The way I figure it, I'm going to be buys for YEARS building this bloody thing. And I'm building it because I want to fly. But because I'm taking so long, I'm not flying. So the answer is simple: take lessons while I build. That way I get to fly, I learn first hand about gyros and what they can/can't do, and besides, its fun.

Great move Duncan. Enjoy your flying and keep us posted.

 

[M. Pearce]

Bones,

If Dr.B got this emotional every time someone gave him constructive critisism, no we probably never would have seen the Bensen Gyrocopter.

Have you been to Duncans website and seen how many times he has gotten to a point and then trashed the whole concept.

I don't think I was too harsh on him for pointing out some of these issues.

If a person can't handle this small amount of constructive critisism then I don't know what to say.

He has just mentioned that he hears this kinda critisism all the time off the board.

Now he want's to quit comming here because of two people that temporarily brought him back down to earth.

Far as I know I have maybe made two replies that may have gone accross his grain.

I'm always trying to be supportive of guys like Duncan because so many have come and gone.

Now I hear he's chunking all that styrofoam and starting over.

I truly fell bad for Duncan.

Man that was a lot of work and a hell of a lot of styrofoam all over the garage.

I'm glad he's not quit the project altogether.




Duncan,

You were talking about vacumm moulding the cockpit? You got to remember that vacumm moulding isn't a piece of cake to do even if you have a perfect shell.

Vacumm molding helps the fiberglass gell adhear to the foam and fill voids in the finnished product, not for the mold plug.

I have worked with fiberglass in the boating industry and it's difficult as hell sometimes.

You were trying to get this thing completly symetrical and going about it the hardest way.

It takes plywood to do this. One big sheet cut and used for your center line and then you attach each symetricaly cut side rib then spray foam between the rib sheets then trim the excess foam away.

It takes way more ribs than you can imagine, the more the better for a plug.

You don't start with a hunk of foam and then shape it with templates working from the outside.

If you don't use foam you can easyly use cheap chicken wire and the harder orange colored molding resin and glass to make your fiberglass plug.

Then with that plug perfected you can make your final mold with again the harder molding resin.

Have you ever seen a concept car in the clay form?

There is a hell of a lot of plywood under that molding clay.

When you cut your side sheet of plywood all you have to do is flip it over and you draw your pattern for the other side right then and there.

This is what makes each side perfectly symetrical.

You can't freehand something this big and it be perfect.

 

[rtfm]

Mark,
Thanks for taking the time to write. Yes, I'm having a hell of a time getting this plug done, but each fresh start builds on earlier failures. One of the problems is, of course, that I know exactly what I want as a final product, but initially couldn't see how to make it, and now, can't seem to do so accurately enough. But I'm not falling apart emotionally about this. Far from it. I'm pissed off that I've screwed it up again. Your posts were (I think you'll agree) a *little* ascerbic, but not much. Forgive me if I responded shortly. I'm just angry that I've screwed up again. That's all.

Your comments about how it should be done is right on the mark, of course. I've known this for a while, but having started, I carried on (not wanting to waste a lot of time and effort). Now I'm wasting even more. But once again, I've started jigging up the plug, and will give it another go. The way you suggested...

And I'm not about to quit the forum. I really love this forum - it's the first thing I open when I get to my PC every morning. What I intend to do is to report less on my "meagre" efforts, reserving my postings only when I have something significant to report.

Regards,
Duncan

 

[GyroRon]

Hi,
You've always been quite supportive of my efforts, and I realise that this was written out of a genuine concern that I'm out of my depth. Thank you for taking the time and trouble.

Prompted by your post, I phoned a local CFI to arrange lessons. The way I figure it, I'm going to be buys for YEARS building this bloody thing. And I'm building it because I want to fly. But because I'm taking so long, I'm not flying. So the answer is simple: take lessons while I build. That way I get to fly, I learn first hand about gyros and what they can/can't do, and besides, its fun. In fact, if I can lay my hands on a bit of cash, I might just think of buying a 2nd hand gyro and fly it while I build (once I have my gyro licence, of course).

Regards,
Duncan

Yes thank you, I wanted to make sure you knew I wasn't attacking you, or trying to be negative in any way. Looks like you took it the way I intended.

Yes I just think once you get your hands on a flying gyro and do some flying, you will have a better understanding of what you want your gyro to look like and how to better design in it's features.

And yes, if you want to fly, it may be years, alot of years before your gyro is built and ready to fly, that is a long time to be stuck on the ground! At least if your taking lessons you get to do what you really wanted to do to start with, which is FLY! :whoo:

Good luck and hope it all works out in the end.

 

[Steve McGowan]

Duncan

Duncan

It's the left or right hand use your concerned about and not the stick position. Too many linkage differences to go the other way

Then the throttle comes into play as well..

Leave the cyclic, (stick) position where it is and put the throttle on the right if your bound to make a change for a south paw (lefty) The Parson's Trainer I have is a right hand outside cyclic, due to the frame, but the internal leverage points are the same.

Thats in a single seater,, side by side SH or Firebird is just change hand position.

I have taught many Lefties to fly and tested they're machines left handed...

Only one student had to change the position of the throttle,, Ralph Beard near Savannah..

steve

 

[GyroRon]

I am a lefty but I just adapt to wherever the controls are in the aircraft. I have no preference.

Well I do prefer to do aerobatics with a stick in between my legs and with right hand on the stick, left hand on throttle.... But to just fly I can use either hand for either function.

 

[M. Pearce]

rtfm,

I'm gonna do some searches today and find some websites for you to see how a concept plug is built with plywood and chicken wire.

Or I guess in your parts they call it "Chook" wire. I guess that's what they call chickens over there.

I just think you need a good foundation for your plug building.

I'll try to post some good websites this afternoon for you.

I have my two year old boy home with me and he's driving me crazy today.

As for being emotional, everyone get's this way when they have worked hard for something that didn't pan out.

Just recognize it and pull your boots up by the straps and keep on trucking.

These kinda large projects aren't built overnight and sometimes little well calculated steps are the best.

Cheers!


O.K. went online and found this one site that shows an example of skeleton plug building.

It's not much but I'm still looking for better examples for you.

I don't think this guys example is the best but it gives you and idea of what skeleton plug building looks like.


http://www.nextcraft.com/plugmaking.html

 

[Bob]

Haing in there Duncan !
I think the 2 nay sayers should apoligize to you as well , but know they aren't man enough to reconize their own screwups on the board here...
they Hide behind "they know they are right" so bad manners is ok then .... "their saveing your life" so being polite doesn't count eather....
Sorry to hear that you had to start over on the plug... but SO what !.... you've come this far you can do it again and NO DOUBT WILL... don't listen to the nay sayers Duncan ! they just tear you down for no reason... continue with your dream !
You of all people have the where withall to see that dream fly !
don't give up...

Keep on Keeping on Duncan I know you can do it and I know you can figure out every aspect of that craft... what you lack in Knowledge You can get, what you lack in experience you can get.
just because you have never built a gyro before doesn't mean you can't build this one or that your not "Qualified" to build it.
they have showered me with the same BS over the last 4 years
and they still havn't learned to be nice...
so don't let them get to ya Duncan !
Haing in there I have fathe in ya ! I know you can do it !
...
Bob.........

 

[groundhog]

I have not seen any sign that you aren't up tto the task.
You are wise enough to ask.
You have the energy
You have artistic talent
You learn from your mistakes
You have the time,space,desire
You have family support.
suck it up and get to work princess we're waiting to see this bird.

 

[rtfm]

Thanks guys

Thanks guys

Bob nad Groundhog,
Thank you for taking the time to be encouraging. I was terribly 'down' the other day, but I tend to bounce back reasonably quickly and have already (with the help of a friend) cut out the new(sturdy) "keel". and mounted it on the stands. Today I'm going to attach angle aluminum to ensure its rigidity, and then I'm going to work as fast as I can to get the new plug finished. One of the reasons the previous one twisted on me was that I took too long to get to the glassfibre stage.

I've also streamlined the profile a little to save some weight.

Thanks guys,
Duncan

 

[M. Pearce]

Bob,
I would feel bad if anyone died that was on the forum but I ain't on a mission to save lives here.

I don't think I have said anything about safety other than to keep the controls outta the passengers hand reach.

Isn't that a good idea?

So now your one example of me hiding behind something to excuse my actions is pure hot air.

As for me "being MAN enough to realize my own mistakes here".

Yes, I am man enough and have appologized in the past for things so I'm not hardly above it.

I really have nothing to say to you but for Duncans sake of emotion I'll refrain from further comment.

Ya'll just try and have a good weekend O.K.

 

[M. Pearce]

groundhog,


Princess???????

 

[rtfm]

Yeah, saw it too, but thought I'd let it go... I doubt that my beard would let me pass for a princess anyway, even though I am dashed good looking! :first:

Duncan

 

[groundhog]

A little bit of background;
My wife is a very accomplished equestrian coach,6 out of nine riders made top ten in the province
When anyone male or female (including me)complains or makes excuses,someone will say;
Suck it up princess
Or
"there's no crying in flying"

 

[GyroRon]

I am not sorry for anything I said. In my opinion Duncan can keep building and scraping his gyro project till he gets it right, or he can go the conventional route and learn more about gyros and then make his dream gyro without wasting so much of his time and money. Has nothing to do with safety, just my opinion that he could save his time and money if done a different way.

Bob can you count? People here have been bothering you for 4 years here? This forum hasn't even been around for 4 years and you only been here since June of 2005!

 

[M. Pearce]

GyroRon,

Don't bother asking questions from Bob, he's one of the guys teaching himself to fly.

Not an attack on his character but I got the impression from this, he may be a little set in his ways.

Sometimes for me it's not a good thing to argue while looking into the mirror.

I'm a bit set in my ways too.

I'm sure not man enough to teach myself to fly.