Not allowed to fly?

Alright guys, let's go easy now...............

I'm not trying to open a can of worms and I'm not looking for a debate or argument.

We've had two discussions recently about having or not having flying privileges at Mentone (Todd and Steve). Both discussions were, I thought, well presented with pros, cons, mistakes etc., and a set of facts I could understand.

I wasn't there, so I'm just trying to understand why Bear Perkins, who I believe is a certified pilot with current credentials, was not allowed to fly.

Many thanks,

Yeah, what's up with that?

He did not attend a pilots briefing Rick. That is why.

They offer two briefings a day, one at 7:30 am and another at noon, and Bear never attended one.

My understanding was he decided at the spur of the momment that he wanted to fly his parachute late one afternoon and they told him no cause he hadn't attended a briefing. He then got mad and packed up and left, swearing he would never return.

It is a shame cause I feel pretty sure had Bear approached me or someone like Ernie Boyette, we could have pulled some strings with the airboss staff and got Bear a briefing so he could be cleared to fly.

I do know that not only are you briefed on how to fly at Mentone, at the briefings, but your also signing paperwork and filling out passcard info etc.... and that could have been part of the problem, the fact that they didn't have any paperwork on Bear on file.

I talked to Scott Lewis about this yesterday and he told me he was mad they didn't let Bear fly, that they "" didn't make a exception" But bottom line is rules are rules and if you start making exceptions for one guy, then others will expect the same and so on and before long you end up totally loosing control of things.

I have said it before and others have said it too, Mentone is about the strickest place I have ever been to as far as flying goes. They don't screw around up there and they don't make exceptions and don't let people do stupid stuff.....

I feel bad that Bear left and was mad, but he was there for several days, he should have taken it upon himself to check with the officials when he got there to find out what he needed to do should the mood strike to go take his PPC for a flight.

I called Bear yesterday and talked to him for half an hour about this. I feel he is an asset to the convention as he was one of just a few vendors there. Bear took care of some aircraft lights I had bought from him at Bensen Days...and I developed a good respect for that man. He told me a different story about not being able to fly. He hit a roadblock......and the only problem I see is that he didnt go up the chain of command any higher. Anyway...without revealing more than I should....I feel it is settled. I told him to think it over....and I while I am at Bensen Days...I said to him I will invite him back. I want to offer him a banquet ticket if he does come back.

He did say he met Bill on the way out...told him his frustrations...and Bill said he would have shut down the whole airport for him towards the evening so he could fly.

Stan

Bear has been an asset at Bensen Days. He brings a lot of hardware and a lot of extra parts. I've bought a lot of stuff from him. He loves gyros but has never been able to get a ride because of his weight.

http://www.bearperkins.com/accessories.htm

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These things often happen due to a missing link in communication. Would Bear have known on his first day there that this would have been an issue?

I've seen the policy in writing, but couldn't find it on the PRA website before the convention. It should probably be there, and also be handed out to anyone arriving with a machine, or taped to the seat if a new nachine shows up parked and the owner can't be found.

The rules make a lot of sense, but knowing them in advance could defuse misunderstandings.

Thank you all very much for the facts. I knew there must be a logical set of circumstances which caused this to happen.

Stan, thanks for making the call. I'm sure that Bear appreciated the personal effort and it probably went a long way to easing his frustration.

I think you are correct Paul. We can't count on the fact that everyone attending the convention follows the forum or is in touch with the PRA rules. Personally, I like everything I have learned about the system in place and take pride in the fact that the ship is run tight and correctly. It's mayabe not perfect, but it's the best I've heard of. And you seem to have thought up the missing link which would be to just have those rules printed and make sure everyone, including the vendors, gets a set. Bravo!

Rules and procedures.

Rules and procedures.

Should be posted in text and a down load on the internet prior to any event.

There should be no surprises at the gate after hours on the road.

I saw nothing here on the Rotaryforum to speak otherwise.



J

automan1223 said:

Should be posted in text and a down load on the internet prior to any event.

There should be no surprises at the gate after hours on the road.

I saw nothing here on the Rotaryforum to speak otherwise.



J

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I'm working on it. I had hoped to have all of the rules posted and automatically emailed to everyone who pre-registered for all of the flying events too.
But we need more volunteers, it takes everyone we have now just to prepare for it.
Next year we will have the tools in place to make your suggestion happen, sorry for the delay, but life gets in the way.

automan1223 said:

I saw nothing here on the Rotaryforum to speak otherwise.
J

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There have been several threads on this here.

You might want to try the SEARCH function.

http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=21632&highlight=passcard
http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12914&highlight=passcard

The Rotary Forum is not a PRA publication.

PW_Plack said:

I've seen the policy in writing, but couldn't find it on the PRA website before the convention. It should probably be there, and also be handed out to anyone arriving with a machine, or taped to the seat if a new nachine shows up parked and the owner can't be found..

Click to expand...

Correct, we do need this info on the website as John is addressing.

As far as on-site communication goes..

Every morning at 7am the announcement clearly states that to fly that day you must attend the pilot briefing.

Again in the afternoon, the PA announcement goes out for the afternoon pilot briefing and that a pilot briefing is required in order to fly.

Lastly, as new aircraft land the airboss informs them that other then departing the airport if the pilot wishes to fly in the vicinity of the airport during the convention they will need to get a pilot briefing.

I gave 6 or 7 custom briefings as pilots came in Wed-Sat. They were all directed to me by the airboss. The airboss also gave a number of individual briefings during slow times.

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It sounds like to me if you wanted to fly at Mentone you just had to follow procedures, what wrong with that? It seems to me at this point if Bear was upset he could not fly and left pissed off that he thought he was above all the rules put in place for every one else.

With a altitude like that it maybe good he did not fly at this event after all with a mind set like that you are dangerous to yourself and others.

barnstorm2 said:

As far as on-site communication goes..

Every morning at 7am the announcement clearly states that to fly that day you must attend the pilot briefing.

Again in the afternoon, the PA announcement goes out for the afternoon pilot briefing and that a pilot briefing is required in order to fly...

Click to expand...

Tim, all good, but if Bear missed getting word, obviously not enough. Lots of people staying in motels will miss the 7am announcement, and a PA announcement just before the afternoon pilot briefing means anyone who's somehow off-site or otherwise occupied will miss both the announcement and the briefing.

What ever happened to asking about the rules when you attend an event like this? I did the first year I showed up at Mentone.

It seems slightly presumptious to me to show up at an air event, and then just expect to fly when the feeling suits you.

Ah, thanks for the clearing up of this. I was talking to Bear quite a bit, bought a wind sock from him for a souvenir, and I never did hear anything said about the pilot's meeting being missed. I'm not so sure he really understood that part at the time he discussed the issue with me - not that I could help or do anything, but I was trying to understand and see if I could help him out with the PRA processing. This was actually the day BEFORE he left, on Friday. I think (from what he told me as he packed up) he was leaving partly because there was no crowd, very slow business, intermittent RAIN coming down, a long trip back to GA, and...the flying stuff too.

I was trying to get him to attend our Wings and Wheels fly-in at West Georgia Regional in Carrollton (CTJ), and he said he had a huge PPC convention to go to in the 3rd weekend of September.

I need to confirm our fly-in dates and send them over to him, he wants to attend that if no confilct.

It is easy to miss the pilot's meetings. Sometimes, if someone has TIME, they will give you a personal briefing, sticker you, and you are good to go. But this doesn't always happen, depends on timing and bandwidth of the vols.

PW_Plack said:

Tim, all good, but if Bear missed getting word, obviously not enough. Lots of people staying in motels will miss the 7am announcement, and a PA announcement just before the afternoon pilot briefing means anyone who's somehow off-site or otherwise occupied will miss both the announcement and the briefing.

Click to expand...

Well, lets see...

If you miss...

The 2+ PA announcements per day.

The Airboss informing you.

Other pilots informing you.

Information on the web page (next year).

Then I guess a sign at the flight line might be a good idea.

Anyone want to donate a LARGE sign and post?

If so I will volenteer to install it before next year's convention.

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Tim,

I seems like you certainly went out of your way to help the communication. Please understand I'm not pointing fingers. I just wanted to understand. And as a result of this thread, some loopholes have been identified and good suggestions made.

No system is perfect.

Tina, although he might have been, for the record, I did not say that Bear was pissed off. And your implication that he must have thought he was "above all the rules" is in poor taste. Do you know Bear's personality or his history and qualifications? Yours was the type of post that I hoped would not appear in this thread. Because I was not there, I cannot say for sure that Bear was in or out of line and wouldn't attempt to do so as you have implied. In the future, people will think more of you as a person if you can show a little restraint before making such assumptions.

Tim,

Tim,

This is just an observation, but the PRA has a long history, somehow, and I am not naming names or casting individuals that work so hard in a bad light, but somehow there is always an individual that get mistreated, or pissed off or is connected with something important that gets pissed off at the PRA. I guess all should be glad it was not the FAA this time....

I guess its just the laws of nature.....

J

barnstorm2 said:

Well, lets see...

If you miss...

The 2+ PA announcements per day.

The Airboss informing you.

Other pilots informing you.

Information on the web page (next year).

Then I guess a sign at the flight line might be a good idea.

Anyone want to donate a LARGE sign and post?

If so I will volenteer to install it before next year's convention.

.

Click to expand...

automan1223 said:

somehow there is always an individual that get mistreated, or pissed off

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That's just you J.

Whats next J?

-PRA dinners give people gas?

-Are you in character promoting the new TROLL movie? :der:

It sadly appears that no organization can be as well run as the automan fan club, but at least we are continually reminded of what we can aspire too

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RICK MARTIN said:

Tina, although he might have been, for the record, I did not say that Bear was pissed off. And your implication that he must have thought he was "above all the rules" is in poor taste. Do you know Bear's personality or his history and qualifications? Yours was the type of post that I hoped would not appear in this thread. Because I was not there, I cannot say for sure that Bear was in or out of line and wouldn't attempt to do so as you have implied. In the future, people will think more of you as a person if you can show a little restraint before making such assumptions.

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Quote by Ron A "He then got mad and packed up and left, swearing he would never return." If that is not pissed off then what is?

I just took the facts and had a opinion, SOOOORY! I guess I am not allowed a opinion, is that what you are saying?

How about passing out a flyer to everyone as they sign-in that explains the process for flying at the event?