PRA dues & the magazine and your thoughts on them

Just a little hijack.

I am glad to see another of the PRA board members posting here. It's great to hear his ideas and thoughts for improving the PRA.

Best thing is we get to voice our opinions and know we will be heard. I like this a lot better than waiting for the once a year general meeting at Mentone. Where you may or may not get to speak your peace because of the time constraint.

Thank you Tom for your time.

And of course many thanks to Tim. There is no way I can remember all he has done to help the PRA.

Duh! I have feeling I forgot some body. :der:
 
Just to get my 2 cents in; I can live without a paper magazine.
I'd be happy with an online magazine.

$50 seems like a lot, but I'll keep paying it if that's what the PRA needs to stay alive, with or without a paper magazine.

Even if there's no real hard core benefilts I can point to that I get from the PRA, I think it helps to have a national organization.

Chuter, good attitude, but one of the issues I have with the PRA as it stands, is it really isn't much of a Organization... it is a magazine publishing company. There isn't enough money left over after the magazine to do much of anything else. Things are so tight the board needed 10-15 minutes time debating over should they pay out 300$ for nice professionally done flyers, or print them for less on a home computer color printer... The other issue is I just don't see the membership numbers rising with more ads in the magazine or just some extras on the website alone. I think it has found itself overpriced and the low membership numbers are proof.
 
I feel John Rountrees efforts will be rewarding us with some encouraging numbers in short time. Its a tough turn around , but I feel it will happen. I personally think an online only magazine makes a lot more sense. I am sure the BOD will be on this topic very soon. Lots of good ideas to kick around, and this is good talking about it. I thank Ron for bringing this matter up for discussion. Stan
 
PRA dues, the magazine and thoughts....

PRA dues, the magazine and thoughts....

Hi guys,
I left the membership 10 years ago after witnessing a gyro accident that matched my set of plans, so while that accident was being sorted out, I built a Zenith 601HDS aircraft. There are 800+ of this aircraft being built around the world and I enjoy flying it, but I’ve never forgotten the most splendid ride I had in two gyros back then and still would build that “Sportster gyro” if there were instructors and the backing of a larger parent organization.

I’d recommend you become one of the arms of EAA and join your magazine with the EAA publications joint or separate as one of the several interests that are covered by EAA. War birds, helicopters, ultra-lights, antiques Light Sport Aircraft and gyros belong together. They have the best quality publishing that you could ask for and they would probably be very happy if the PRA were one of the arms of the EAA, ancillary to the larger, but shrinking “experimental nature” of the EAA organization.

Most of LSA articles are dull after repeated comparisons of Mfg’d. LSA every year. They lost some ground when Experimenter became Sport Aviation and Sport Aircraft mag’s. Inclusion of your venue could boost both memberships and publishing output if you joined together to keep experimental in gyro publications. The most interesting developments and achievements are in ultra-lights and helicopters. Your recent progress in rotors, engines, gyro spot takeoff and composite structures of new gyros would be extremely interesting to the EAA membership.

I go to Oshkosh for one day each year and scrub for new and interesting things found at ultra light and helicopters and seldom stay beyond half a day owing to the “commercial nature” of the EAA LSA party. If you were there, your Mentone fly-in would see larger turnouts and both of your memberships could see improvement as well.
 
Just My Opinion

Just My Opinion

I've been reading this daily but have been letting Rex make the replies. However, having served on various BODs in the past I just wanted to make a few comments. One thing we must all remember is the BOD is made up of members that have volunteered their time and effort into an organization. They do the best they can with what they are given. Some have more experience than others and some are more beneficial than others but they all try very hard to do what is best for the organization, after all they are members too.

It has been encouraging to read this thread because although there are some negative comments most of them are presented with suggestions that could make a difference.

Having said that...what the BOD needs from us know is our support. They need us to encourage others to join PRA and they need us to believe and have faith in them that they are reviewing all the options and trying to move this organization forward to where it needs to be. That takes our help though. If you have the time (or money) to assist then you MUST get involved. The organization is only as good as it members and I personally think there are a LOT of good members in this organization. We have to get involved though. Not just with ideas but also with our time and energy. If you aren't willing to help in some way then honestly I don't think you have the right to say anything about the way things are going. It is the same for voting. If you don't vote then don't complain!

There are a lot of people (new and old) that are getting involved and helping out. That WILL make a difference but it will also take a little time. Encourage them for what they are doing and offer up good suggestions on how they can continue.

As far as my part goes...I had not joined the PRA because Rex was a member and I figured that covered us both but tomorrow I will be calling Jennifer and joining myself. Another option might be to offer a family membership (and no we only need one magazine sent!) I will also be discussing an ad in the magazine for our business. We will offer discounts to all PRA members and I will also be discussing some kind of free giveaway bi-monthly for the member that refers the most new members. It may not be much but at least I am doing what I can afford to help promote the PRA. I hope some of you that haven't volunteered yet will join in and do what you can as well.

Thanks!
Kim
 
Just got in. I see my wife has been here...

For those of you not familiar with southern women...
That stuff she said was east texas for - get off your a$$ and do something!
She sure can make it sound sweeter than I can.

This thread has been great.
 
Just got in. I see my wife has been here...

For those of you not familiar with southern women...
That stuff she said was east texas for - get off your a$$ and do something!
She sure can make it sound sweeter than I can.

This thread has been great.
You know Rex I'm quickly falling in love with your wife and .... you (Yikes, but I'm not like that)!:hail:
 
I’d recommend you become one of the arms of EAA and join your magazine with the EAA publications joint or separate as one of the several interests that are covered by EAA...

...I go to Oshkosh for one day each year and scrub for new and interesting things found at ultra light and helicopters and seldom stay beyond half a day owing to the “commercial nature” of the EAA LSA party. If you were there, your Mentone fly-in would see larger turnouts and both of your memberships could see improvement as well.

Larry, you make sense, although I'm afraid experimental rotorcraft would be a flavor of the week for EAA, and quickly disappear, swallowed whole.

An interim step might be to complete invade Oshkosh one year. Larry Neal said he had the Ultralight Village pretty much to himself much of this year, and got a lot of attention for the Super Sky Cycle. Those guys get to fly every morning and evening, and they're the first thing seen in the sky each day by tens-of-thousands of arriving attendees.

Perhaps Mentone could be scheduled one year to overlap AirVenture, and a mass arrival flight of gyroplanes planned into Oshkosh. It doesn't seem as though very many people attend both.

Hmmm...
 
...

Perhaps Mentone could be scheduled one year to overlap AirVenture, and a mass arrival flight of gyroplanes planned into Oshkosh. It doesn't seem as though very many people attend both.

Hmmm...
I really like that Idea Paul!!! That would be fun too.
We pop in, hand out a bunch of fliers inviting them to Mentone and inviting them to join PRA and a swarm of rotors exit stage left into the sunset!
 
Last edited:
A few comments from a business standpoint.

1. PRA is a "non-profit" but that does not mean it "tries to lose money or spend everything." It is a tax status that means that there are no owners or stockholders who benefit from the value in the organization. A properly-run non-profit makes money and uses it to grow, to promote its cause or causes, and to benefit its members. While the reports have slightly different names under US accounting principles, a non-profit produces the same statements that any business does -- and is managed much the same way.

2. Our key problem is too few customers. Remember the crusty old joke about the "it's the dogs' fault they won't eat our dog food"? Is it our product, or our promotion, that's the problem? It's an important determination to make, because a bad product is killed even more rapidly by good promotion. Right now, neither many of the rotor-obsessed (as evidenced by the forum members holding out for a better value proposition), nor many of the potential newbies, are buying.

3. It's not just us. I don't have any hard data, but my impression is that the customers're not buying aircraft either. Part of it is the recession and natural belt-tightening -- the first thing to go is leisure activity, yes? Even those who have not had negative financial consequences themselves are still fearful, and fear drives savings, not spending. Also, availability of capital is not what it was a couple years ago. I know folks who bought their gyro or helicopter kit using a home-equity line of credit. Nowadays, a HELOC is out of reach for most borrowers, and there's not much in the way of kit financing available, so a gyro or helo is an expensive cash purchase. So the very manufacturers, dealers and CFIs who are normally the Association's go-to guys for support are living hand-to-mouth themselves. We've seen the closure of two large gyro manufacturers, and the functional withdrawal of another from the US market. The Aussies look to be barely hanging on -- only Europe seems to have any real development and sales going.

4. EAA. We can team up with them, but we really don't want to get too close. I suggested this myself a few years ago, and have since changed my mind. I've just had another org I've long been a member of get eaten by EAA (that would be NAFI) and it is now run entirely, as far as I can see, for the benefit of the Oshkosh Mafia of EAA insiders (who are nice people and not like the actual mafia). But they do tend to run things for the in-group. The benefits for members seem to have weakened greatly. EAA is fine for what they are, but if we become a branch of EAA like VAA or NAFI, we'll wind up with the same flimsy magazine of the same stuff that's in Sport Aviation with six pages of more-or-less relevant content. Or EAA might just roll it up, as they did EAA Ultralights, leaving us high and dry.

5. John Rountree is right that cost cuts aren't going to help now. At 1300 members we're circling the drain (the number was 3000 when I first got sucked into one of these discussions, like a turkey into a turbofan. Splat!). Cutting costs may have some small impact on how fast we're going around. But what we really need is to climb clean out of the crapper.

6. Depending on what happens with taxation in the US, the PRA may be able to offer valuable tax writeoffs in return for donations. This is all up in the air, however, because along with higher tax rates on individuals the government has proposed a cut in the deductibility of charitable donations.

These are just some thoughts at this point. I have more, but so does everybody.

cheers

-=K=-
 
I don't believe that joining with the EAA would benefit us at all and do agree that we would just get swallowed up. But I do believe the EAA could help us in many ways. They are an organization that started out much like the PRA and have been successful. There are many PRA members that are also EAA members, we could learn something from them. EAA is at most all air shows, we can't be there because we're too small and it's too expensive but if we buddy up with our EAA counterparts we may be able to share expenses and share a booth with a display and information hand outs. With us having members that belong to both then this should be something that could be worked out. The exposure at these air shows is phenomenal, if we could get just 1/2% of the people that stop by interested and half of them to join we could grow at an amazing pace. The EAA also hold their fly-ins just as we do, watch for local fly-ins and ask if you can fly your gyro in, I'm sure they will welcome you, they are aviation enthusiasts too.
 
I feel John Rountrees efforts will be rewarding us with some encouraging numbers in short time. Stan
I am glad you said that Stan , and I think you are correct. When I see the energy John puts into the PRA I am humbled. If anyone is to gain by John's efforts , it will be all of us .

I must confess I am not a current paid member of PRA. I bought my first "Magazine" from them way back in the 1970's and 1980"s because of the excellent helicopter articles. Several more after that. At the time I thought it was just a magazine.

I now regret not staying current but have decided to become a member right now based on all the latest efforts by guys like you Stan , and John and all the others who are active on this topic.

I would also like to comment that I am sure I bought my PRA magazines off a magazine rack here in Canada. Something on the front cover caught my attention anyway. Or it was another aviation magazine doing an article on the PRA magazine. That is from memory.

Marketing is everything. The interested people exist. The magazine and PRA exists. To join the two together is not easy. It is called marketing. Marketing has always been that way. It takes gifted people to make it work.

I think right now there are many such people trying to make something out of the PRA. At the very least I will join just to be a part of it.
 
Last edited:
Arnie I have to double that. John is putting so much effort into this it is bound to be a success. I have no question about it. Lots of good constructive energy being invested into this project, and lots of smart and revolutionary things are being suggested. I think this is a winning combination.
 
choppergabor

Raffles are a great way to raise some serious money,BUT raffling off a homebuilt aircraft where some one with no training or experience could hop in and try to fly it, raises the monster word LIABILITY LIABILITY. Unless there is some way around that, it would be a no go. You could bet you life on it if someone got injured or killed in that machine you could kiss PRA good by and those that built it.

Tony

Tony thats just plain incorrect. If that were so they would never raffle guns or cars or steak knife sets. Lawyers not only sue but show you how not to be sued.
 
what happened ? no withdrawal.

what happened ? no withdrawal.

Well last week I called PRA HQ. and gave them my debit card number to join.

to this date the money has not been taken out of my account.

would have thought it would have been taken out by now.

worried I might bounce a check if not careful.

would like to know if there was an issue with my debit card. but been to busy to call PRA Hq. again.

Oh well.
 
RE: booths at shows.

Carl Schneider used to man the PRA booth at one of the big shows (OSH?). I was surprised to find that Carl did it 100% on his own. Not sure he even got a thank you. It was very expensive for a one-man show -- I think the space cost him $1200.

cheers

-=K=-
 
So what happens to the Lifetime members when PRA gets sucked dry and no longer exists because they keep pouring money down the drain publishing a magazine?

I say put the magazine online in PDF format and put the membership money to better uses elsewhere.

Tim I knew at the core we would agree on soemthing important (LoL).

And sell the damn airport and hire some professionals that know how to brand and promote.

The magazine is at best anemic and barely relevant. Its more like a high school newsletter.
 
Tim I knew at the core we would agree on soemthing important (LoL).

And sell the damn airport and hire some professionals that know how to brand and promote.

The magazine is at best anemic and barely relevant. Its more like a high school newsletter.

You spoke too soon. I think owning the airport is a good idea. I don't subscribe to the thinking that it's not near me so I don't get any benefit from it. The EAA has their annual convention in Oshkosh every year. That's far away from a lot of their members but you know what? Their members find a way to make the trip. I haven't been to Mentone yet but it's not the distance that's prevented me from going. It's the amount of vacation time I get to use for a mancation. I use up my allotment for Bensen Days. I plan on getting up to Mentone in the near future even if it means cutting back on how much time I spend at Bensen Days.
 
Top