Scott
1. you say un-co0rdinated turn if it's uncoordinated how can you sure your ASI is reading correctly, with air hitting the side of the pitot tube it cant read accurately, it will almost definitely read low.
2. if you are trying to get to a certain place at a certain height then you are ground referencing
3. airspeed is controlled by nose attitude not engine thrust
4. the lift vector is canted, tilted to one side so the gyro will always sink or loose airspeed in the turn. this is why pilots lower the nose upon entering a turn.
5. accelerate from what air speed to what air speed ? when flying a balanced turn at 30 mph ?
6. if you are flying through an area of sink created by air bouncing over a building (like a standing wave) are you suggesting that a further 180 degree turn (losing height) back into that same area of sink is the best option? (i'm not so sure) please explain.. different if you are talking about flying under a CuNim I agree
7. agree no 2 turns create the same results in low level rough air
8. many are not flying right now as it's winter , how about you flying with cameras and showing us a clip of your down wind turn experience
9. you know you have got a 360 turn spot on when you fly through your own slipstream
10 maybe someone with a smoke system can demo both an air video and a ground video that will be very visual and might nail it
my guess is the smoke will drift down wind with the gyro showing that we are indeed flying in a block of air and provided we fly in balance at the correct air speed (for the day) we have nothing to fear (except fear it's self !)
in this thread smoking may be good for our health !
looks like I will be up flying in March, and I might even make it to BD !
if so I will buy you a beer, you certainly got my brain cells going
thanks
Peter (in the cold, wet, miserable, south west of the UK)
Peter, I will answer each question. Remember this thread started as a nice afternoon windy flight in 30-40 MPH winds that I thought I would share with those stuck in cold weather, nothing more. Remember, while all you are freezing your tail feathers off, today was the first day below 70 degrees this week, most of the time it has been near 80 degrees, and great gyro flying weather!
1-2. This was a ground reference maneuver because I needed to fly a certain flight path, I never said it was not . The turn only took a few seconds. I don't need to look at a airspeed indicator, my attention was focused on making the turn to the correct flight path behind me, which puts the least amount of people below me at risk. See the red line in the bottom photo. this was my "exit" after making the turn from the north/south runway. You can see the area is surrounded by houses and buildings. I expected to loose altitude and airspeed, and I did. I only started looking at the ASI after the turn was made to make sure the airspeed started coming back up. Remember this was done "Because I could" and was practice in a 40MPH headwind. See video comments at the end.
3.
airspeed is controlled by nose attitude not engine thrust, That is way to broad a statement to either agree or disagree with generally. If I had a 500 HP gyro instead of a 65 HP one, the thrust would become a limiting factor with retreating blade stall. I can think of other examples not to be able to make this statement "in stone".
4.
the lift vector is canted, tilted to one side so the gyro will always sink or loose airspeed in the turn. this is why pilots lower the nose upon entering a turn. In a flat quick rudder pedal turn, not necessarily. In a quick turn using mostly cyclic to turn,maybe .In a nice big wide 15 second turn watching your airspeed, that should not happen. In high winds in a banked turn, during the first 60-90 degrees of the turn the rotor creates lift from the tilting upper blade. The lift is just like it was flying in forward flight … when the rotorblade is higher in the front of the gyro than at the tail. When done correctly, almost no power change is need to complete a 180 high wind turn and stay at the same altitude while airspeed is held steady. Probably poorly explained, but that is my experience.
5.
accelerate from what air speed to what air speed ? when flying a balanced turn at 30 mph ? From a 40 MPH headwind with zero ground speed , to a 30MPH forward airspeed downwind turn . This is a point where the gyro has gone from a behind the power curve (forward airspeed) point to where it is making lift again.
6. I never suggest making any turns low to the ground in high winds. A buildings/trees are too low to create anything other than minor local turbulence. I have had times when flying near mountains ranges that are 3-5,000 feet high that unusual updrafts and down drafts have occurred. I once passed a soaring eagle while the gyro was climbing 1,000 FPM AT IDLE. Also have times where 30 seconds of full power almost put me into the ground with good airspeed from 1000 feet agl. I expect anything to happen in mountains and try to fly with a lot of extra altitude. Cutting below mountain tops in steep canyons does not make for a long gyro flying career IMHO.
However **if** you are DW and are unable to arrest a sink by 100 feet AGL, You have already screwed up,and are about to crash and possibly be killed. Turn back into the wind immediately to try to save yourself. At least if/when you hit the ground it will be a lot slower groundspeed. If you complete the turn quickly, you will climb straight up over the point the turn was made. This is a last ditch effort, but can be practiced at a safe altitude. If you have to think about it very long,or do nothing ,it is too late. Practice, practice practice, and always have a "Plan B" ready to execute.
7.
agree no 2 turns create the same results in low level rough air. Absolutely, that is why flying low to the ground in high winds is extra risky and requires extra altitude as a safety factor
8. Yes I have them, I promised myself not to post them online. I have nothing to prove to anyone here. I have ones doing all sorts of things, including landing at a International major airport. Some maneuvers "may possibly " have been made in an unauthorized location(S) after review. My camera has since been stolen from my car, and hope to get a new one soon. Some videos were saved to my computer. Should any forum member want to see them , I have no problem showing them in person to verify what I said below. All-In John would be a good candidate to verify or anyone else that lives near.
9. you know you have got a 360 turn spot on when you fly through your own slipstream. It has been my experience in high winds that if the turn is fast , that as you drift with the wind(downwind), it is at a slower speed then the actual wind and it is not a factor. Not until you start making bigger wider tuns, do you hit your own slipstream.
10. Pouring smoke in the sky is not a thing appreciated by my tree hugging fellow Californians.
I reviewed a video I have of doing 7 spins in 28 seconds, and the airspeed indicator was at zero the whole time once the spins got going. To me that indicates that a pedal turn does not have airspeed that can be read in such a fast turn in regard to questions one and two . I also did some s-turns and 360's into a 20 MPH wind. Though not all the maneuvers were completed at level altitude, the ones that were, seemed to see a 20-30 MPH airspeed change between upwind and downwind when steep turns were made. Another video showing a tail slide into a tailwind, the AS indicator was reading zero, as it should.
So anyone come up yet with that proof you won't sink in a flat 180 degree pedal turn starting from a zero ground speed in a 40 MPH headwind yet? A pilot said he could do it…….that I am still waiting to see, but not holding my breath.
Scott Heger, Laguna Niguel,Ca N86SH
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