Yamaha Genesis 120hp engine

HobbyCAD

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Rick, Thanks for the pictures.

Looking at the internals on the picture with the bottom oil pan cover removed, those seem to be 2 large oil pick-ups to the pump. I understand it's a dry sump engine, I wonder if us guy's running the engine in an upright position need to modify our bottom covers, as well as mod those inlets to be horizontal. They are positioned to pick up the oil with the engine lying on it's side. For those not familiar with it's original installation, in the sled, it lies down a lot, and the bottom cover is a triangular shape, the one side being the horizontal lower most oil pick-up in the sled installation. I would think, in the upright mounted position, with the pick-up now being angled, and it being a dry sump, rather than a tank of oil in the pan, there might not always be enough oil in the bottom to cover the inlet, thus making it suck air. This frothed up mixture might be a problem if the external tank does not sort out this frothed up oil by the time it returnes back into the engine.

Any comments out there?
 
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Hawk

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HobbyCad,

This system has two scavage pumps and single pressure pump. The scavage pumps are always sucking air along with oil as it's a "dry sump". The oil scavaged is sent to the oil tank and the internal baffling separates the oil/air mix. We have the engine mounted in the helio in the same position as it is mounted in the sled.

Cheers,
Rick
 

MYR

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in a hurry

in a hurry

I apologize for having to cut corners: I am in a hurry. I have to quickly replace an engine that does not give me safisfaction (belgian UL POWER 260i). The GENESIS YAMAHA might be a good solution. Nearly 40 pages in English it's huge! Could you summarize?
1 / Who can sell me such a 'ready to fly' engine?
2 / What are the echoes of the reliability?
I'd like to install it inside something that looks like the former Kitfox III.
Is there a Canadian French using this engine? If so I would be happy to talk with Skype.
Thank you.

 
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CLS447

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He wants to replace it........that's whats wrong with it !

Now........ who sells a bolt on Yamaha ????

At $14,900.... this seems to be Yamaha's top of the line sled.

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelfeatures/637/0/features.aspx

Am I confused....I thought they were 2 strokes ? ( WRONG )

OK now it's a 4 stroke !!! Hey they all are 4 strokers......anyone converting them yet ?? ( dumb ass )

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modeloverview/cat/2012/61/model_overview.aspx

I could store it all year & hope for 1 or 2 good snow to go have some fun in the freezing cold weather..........weeeeeee sounds like fun !! Now where did I put my pedalboat ?

OK.... even my 50cc Zuma scooter has gone 4 stroke fuel injected !!!

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/sport/products/modelspecs/659/0/specs.aspx
 
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CLS447

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Ron Awad......is yours a 2 stroke ? Never mind.................... they've always been 4 stroke !

Are the newer ones much better or did they become more of a pain ?

Which is the best one to get......year/size/FI ?

Can you get the engine & needed parts direct from Yamaha ?
 
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CLS447

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OK , I've been browsing the Yamaha wesite......................

I did not know that there are 2 , 3 , & 4 cylinder Genesis engines !

You guys already knew this but.................... ?????????
 

GyroRon

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Chris, where have you been hiding for the last 3 years? My engine is a four stroke, 3 cylinder. 120 hp.

You could buy one from the yamaha dealer, but it would be very expensive to do that. Cheaper to buy a used sled with low miles and pull out the engine and wiring harness. If you get lucky and find a wrecked sled with low miles, thats about the cheapest way you would get a good engine. My engine came from a wrecked sled and only had 240 miles on it when it went onto the gyro, that would be like buying a engine with less than 10 hours running time, not even fully broken in.

MYR, you can not buy a bolt on yamaha engine package.... it will take some time and some effort on your part ( designing exhaust system, engine mounting, etc.... ) to get one of these engines onto your plane. If you are willing to go through that, contact Racer ( the guy who started this thread ) and work out the details.

I am very pleased with my yamaha. I am approaching 120 hours on it now and so far so good.
 

CLS447

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Ron, yeah I know I corrected myself....sorry about that.

Now what year is your engine ?

Have they changed much since that year ?

Is the 4 cylinder worth a look ?

Is the 2 cylinder worth a shtt for a single place ?
 

GyroRon

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I can't remember off hand, I think mine is out of a 2007 model sled

Most of the current line up is fuel injected, mine has carbs. I think Racer has built a few of the fuel injected models, but I do not know much about them, as far as why they might be better. I chose to go with a carbed engine from the start because I could get one cheaper and without computer controlled FI, the installation would be easier and more fool proof.

The 4 cylinder is a bigger higher revving engine and has a built in reduction drive... but you still need a external reduction drive. I know of one flying, but do not know how successful it is. I prefer the 3 cylinder engines myself.

The 2 cylinder makes 80 hp, but at high revs.... and it doesn't have much torque till you have the rpms up very high. because of that, it has a hard time spooling up to speed with the load of a propeller against it. I think once you have it up to rpms, it would be fine, but would be very slow to get from idle speed up to flight rpms, and it would have a hard time driving a prerotator. Because of this, I don't think Racer has done much with the 2 cylinder engines.

The 2 cylinder engines are only 500cc.... The weber engines a few are messing with should do a little better because they have more displacement, with most being 750-850cc.

The 3 cylinder engines are real good in that they weight significantly less than even a direct drive Subaru EA-81, yet put out over 100 horsepower. I estimated my engines total weight including reduction drive at around 175 pounds.
 

CLS447

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Thanks for the explanation, Ron.

So what you recommend is....... look for a 3 cylinder carbed Yammy sled ?

I wonder when they stopped using carbs ?

Did you have to do any carb tuning ?
 

GyroRon

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Thanks for the explanation, Ron.

So what you recommend is....... look for a 3 cylinder carbed Yammy sled ?

I wonder when they stopped using carbs ?

Did you have to do any carb tuning ?

Yes, a 3 cylinder sled, either 120 carbed, or 130 hp fuel injected.

I am not sure when or even IF, they stopped using carbs. I do know that the 120hp 3 cylinder was the last sleds they used carbs on, the rest were all FI.

You do have to fatten up the jetting, since in a gyro we eliminate the " airbox " the sleds use. The airbox is pretty restrictive, along with the factory exhaust. We just put filters on the carbs and a much more open exhaust, so the factory jetting ends up too lean.

In a fuel injected engine, I am not sure how you would fatten up the mixture.... often in FI systems used on motorcycles and watercraft ( and I assume sleds ) the system can not automatically make large mixture adjustments, and require a new fuel map to be programmed into the computer. Not sure how easily that can be done for one of these sled engines.... which is partly why I stuck with a carbed engine for my choice when I was shopping for a sled engine to convert.
 

GyroRon

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GyroDoug

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I have to quickly replace an engine that does not give me safisfaction (belgian UL POWER 260i). QUOTE]

Laurent,

I would like to hear more details about why you are not happy with the UL 260i engine. If there are problems with the engine we would like to learn about it before others end up repeating the same mistakes.
 

CLS447

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Ron, any advise on how to really mess with a scam artist like this ?
 

GyroRon

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If your bored, I suppose you could string them along, making them think your going to buy, but keep asking to see the sleds first and so on..... But trust me, that is a scam. They would most likely try to tell you they are out of the country and have a friend or agent that is handling the sale, and you just wire them the funds and then go pick up the sleds. They would say that since the miles are so low you don't need to go see the sleds first.
 

MYR

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I have to quickly replace an engine that does not give me safisfaction (belgian UL POWER 260i). QUOTE]

Laurent,

I would like to hear more details about why you are not happy with the UL 260i engine. If there are problems with the engine we would like to learn about it before others end up repeating the same mistakes.

Bad relationships with the factory.
 

GyroDoug

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Bad relationships with the factory.

Laurent,

While that tells me the general nature of your displeasure with the company, that really doesn't provide enough information to be of any value when helping another customer decide if they want to do business with that company. Could you please give us some more details about what kind of issues you have had with the engine and then more details about how the company handled those concerns. I am trying to get enough information to help others make a more educated decision when it comes time to purchase their engine but a general answer is of pretty limitted value.
 

MYR

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Laurent,

While that tells me the general nature of your displeasure with the company, that really doesn't provide enough information to be of any value when helping another customer decide if they want to do business with that company. Could you please give us some more details about what kind of issues you have had with the engine and then more details about how the company handled those concerns. I am trying to get enough information to help others make a more educated decision when it comes time to purchase their engine but a general answer is of pretty limitted value.
Decisions of UL POWER in progress. Cannot give details unless break the process. Will explain in public all the problems if this company take bad decisions.
 
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