Xenon - Zenon Owners

JohnB

Hopeful Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2013
Messages
18
Location
Wiscasset, ME USA
Aircraft
C172-182-206 - Piper Cub - Chief
Total Flight Time
40
I have never seen an actual list of Xenon - Zenon - Zen1 owners.

I'm wondering if it would be possible to start a voluntary listing of all owners - especially in the USA. I know a few, but would love to hear about others. I'm new to this Rotary Wing Forum and am trying to learn as much as possible about this aircraft!

Thanks in advance to all involved!

JohnB
 
Xenon Owner

Xenon Owner

John -

Have you looked at xenongyroblog.blogspot.com? At least a good place to start (although it's all about the machines, not the owners).

I'll throw my hat in:
N912XE - one of the first couple of RSTs imported into the US, this was displayed at Oshkosh 2007 and was Grand Champion @ Mentone that year. Now based at KOAK (Oakland International). See the photo link on the blog for a pic of me flying it @ its old home base of KFFZ in Mesa, AZ.

Cheers,
Peter
 
John -

Have you looked at xenongyroblog.blogspot.com? At least a good place to start (although it's all about the machines, not the owners).

I'll throw my hat in:
N912XE - one of the first couple of RSTs imported into the US, this was displayed at Oshkosh 2007 and was Grand Champion @ Mentone that year. Now based at KOAK (Oakland International). See the photo link on the blog for a pic of me flying it @ its old home base of KFFZ in Mesa, AZ.

Cheers,
Peter
Hi Peter,
Thanks very much!
Ill check out the blog and the photo!

How many hours do you have in your gyro? Any problems with it since you've had it? And, I'm thinking it was both Raphael and Artur that owned the company that sold you that craft?
Thanks Peter

Cheers Back!
John
 
John -

I'm the 2nd owner, but yes it was the both of them at the time. I've flown about half of its 120+ hours.

The original owner, Scott, dealt with most of the teething problems years ago. Except for the current brake issue, any problems have been of my own making (I've done a number of mods to lighting, avionics, adding wheelpants, carpeting the interior, etc., etc., etc...). :)
 
John


Take a look at the FAA search

http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/AcftRef_Results.aspx?Mfrtxt=&Modeltxt=XENON&PageNo=1

Double click on the search results and you will get details of the current registered owner and location, it will give you an idea of roughly where they operate.

Via my Blog I've had direct email exchanges with approx 50 or so Xenon owners, many have provided with photos and home base airfields / hours on the airframe etc.

My Blog also has a brief potted history of the design from ABS, through CA through the split into AAT and "new CA".

Side Question - There are still several US registered Xenons that I have never seen a photo of - if the owners visit this forum and perhaps if you know them then please do ask them to get in touch - thanks

N102TG

N112ET

N402ED


Note that N102TG is believed to have had an accident in Aug 2011 although this does not appear in the NTSB stats.

Cheers


Steve

http://xenongyroblog.blogspot.co.uk/
 
XenonN102TG.jpg


N102TG
 
Thanks Steve, and the rest of you for all the information.
I'm feeling encouraged! There really are quite a few Xenons in the States!
There is a lot to all this and I am doing ALOT of learning as I go along!

Thanks again to you all!

John
 
Mark - thank you for the photo of N102TG - Do you know if the photo is pre Aug 2011 or maybe it's all fixed and up and running again?


Regards

Steve

http://xenongyroblog.blogspot.co.uk/
 
Hi Gents from South Africa,

I had to respond to the posts above. I am the proud owner of 1 of the first Zen1 Gyro's, having ordered a Xenon, but having to live through the spat. I have made my views clear on the microlighters forum in SA regarding the posts made by both parties during the spat, but so be it.
To JohnB, maybe I'm not really qualified to comment as I am still Air Pollution, having only received my NPL in May 2012 training on a Magni M16 and taking delivery of my Zen1 ZU-RBI in August 2012. Since then I have added 80 hours on the clock and here goes with the info:
1. She is a bitch and needs full attention, unlike the Magni that was a real lady, forgiving to a T. But as soon as she allows you into her heart, she is an absolute queen. She has a power curve unlike any other, and even at my home base at 5200', 34 Deg C(93 F), two up (200 kg/440 lb) and 45 kg/100 lb of fuel so a take off weight of 560 kg/1235, which is mauw, she rotates on 55 mph within 200 m and climbs at 800'/min, lovely!!
2. She has your typical side-by-side quirkyness, lots of drag if not in absolute coordinated flight. One up she needs quite a bit of side trim to stop her from rolling right. She also needs an approach with some power on or the rudders become very ineffectual, and she tends to swing left on her rotor, leaving you with some serious work to maintain centreline and not land on the right wheel and in the pooh!
3. She requires a bit in her mouth all the time, let her go at your peril! Yesterday I lost concentration for 15 sec and she was up to 120 mph, just shy of her do not exceed, and this all at mauw and using 22 lt/h (5 gal/h).
4. So you may ask, where is the bad stuff???? Well she arrived with a few unacceptable snags. Unacceptable if one purchases a $100 000 gyro, and some are still not sorted. This is probably more an indictment of the local agent, but ATA's assembly line quality controls are definately up the pole or non existant!
5. The EFIS installation is so bad it looks like a 10 year old did it. The fact that it works is a miracle, including the live 12V exposed wire just lying loose behind the EFIS! Talk about fire hazards. In fact if the FAA or any other controlling body sees the installation, all registration for this gyro will be scrapped! What ever you do dont let ATA send you a Zen1 with an EFIS, rather have that installed by an approved fitment centre.
6. The string type trim system is so ex 1 st world war technology and so Celier! I believe ATA is now moving to electric trim which should be standard on a gyro of this quality. The trim spring is also designed for european standards where the mauw is 450 kg and when you have 2 up at 100 kg, no amount of effort will allow you to trim her to straight and level.
7. Again for a $ 100 000 gyro, I think the allround finishing is just shy of quality, a point that I think ATA is working on if you see the sudden upgrades being published, from the adjustable seats to the new fuel tanks. I think that Her Fuhrer Celier kind of stiffled any improvements that did not meet his low expectations.
8. In summary, she is a beaut. In addressing all the shortcomings from ATA, I have in fact bonded with her on another plane, getting to know the inner workings better, not always a good thing for a novice pilot, but I have been lucky so far and fortunately had superior flight training.
9. So after me rambling on and on....the short answer is that the ATA Zen1 is in my mind one of the finest, safest and enjoyable gyro's around.
Amen
 
Hi Pieter,

thanks for an honest, unbiased report about your Zen1.
This is the main purpose of this forum to get such first hand,
competent infomation.

Paul
 
Mark - thank you for the photo of N102TG - Do you know if the photo is pre Aug 2011 or maybe it's all fixed and up and running again?
Regards
Steve
http://xenongyroblog.blogspot.co.uk/

Steve,

That photo was taken when I owned it and in my hangar. The guy who bought it from me crashed it in a field. Thankfully he was not injured. He claimed the engine vapor-locked - although no official cause was determined. He later sold the wreckage to Mike Bantum who is now rebuilding it. Mike and Scott Tinnesand were among the first factory representatives for Celier Aviation.

Mike is an excellent craftsman and I have every reason to believe that 102TG will be rebuilt better than new!

Tom
 
Hi Tom - thanks for that news update - I'm glad to hear that 102TG will take to the skies again in due course.

Cheers
 
Hi Pieter,
Thanks very much for this really in-depth view of your new Xenon. I've been comparing the Xenon to the Magni lately and it's interesting to see, and hear about some of the differences. I have to say I'm disappointed in the lack of quality you speak of. For that amount of money it should be assembled like a watch! To hear that any FAA inspection probably would have failed is pretty disconcerting, for me at least!

Well, thanks again! Fly safe and have fun!!
I'm still talking and comparing - lots to think about!!

Best to ya,
JohnB
 
Pieter -

As a Xenon owner I feel I have to weigh in on your point #3.

Because I believe that they are well designed aerodynamically and inherently dynamically stable, I don't think a properly set up Xenon / Zen should behave this way.

While I have personally flown a Xenon which was so far out of trim as to exhibit this behavior, mine is so well trimmed that I can fly hands off all day. (And while mine is a Xenon 1, not a Zen, I would not expect the flying characteristics to have worsened in the evolution of the aircraft.)

I strongly urge that you have your gyro properly hang-tested and adjusted to avoid the potentially fatal behavior you're describing.
 
PeterD,

Thanks for input, but we are sorting the trim. Maybe my post was a bit of a hyperboly, but several issues really need sharpening up, while on balance the Gyro is absolutely magnificent!

The trim from AAT is sh***t! The spring is useless, so we have replaced it with a Magni spring and also replaced the archaic string trim system with an electric trim, but this needs some tuning. Having completely re-wired the MGL via an approved fitter, the trim now drains power to the extent that the MGL re-boots because of voltage drop, but we have some really super AP (Approved Persons) here that do certified work and sorts the problem, so by tomorrow we will be up and running.

But then again there are a magnitude of items that are beyond reproach...the interior carpeting, noice dampening, controls, packing area, foot holds, visuals (glass area vs body), finishing lines (body lines), the quality of my 8.8 m rotor (I understand that the composite rotors hate water, well RBI has had her initiation in the rain and the rotor is great). The new improvements are wonderful, the seat adjustment and tanks will definately be on my list of amendments. I do think that the new variable pitch prop will work miracles in SA's altitude variation and will be a must install.

In general, I am convinced that my analysis of the available Gyro's in SA was 100 % correct, and that the toss-up between the M24 and Zen1 (the cavalon was really not that popular when I made this decision) and having gone the Zen1 route was the right decision, I am a very proud Zen1 owner and promoter. But horses for courses because my little training M16 was the most excillirating experience I have ever had.

So JohnB, there you have my input. PeterD, being 1 of the founding owners I dont believe that I can really tell you anything but if you are still an owner, the above must ring true!

Zenon, what's your comments?

PK
 

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Hi Pieter,
When I first received my Xenon in 2007 I had so many problems, and faults I nearly gave it all away. To this day I still wonder how the factory could have allowed this to happen. The best thing I ever did with my machine was to re-machine the teeter bolt holes, fit DU bushes every where including the universal. After static balance no tracking error and a very smooth rotor. I would be very keen to hear your final solution to sorting your cross trim. What side do you fly from?
Safe flying JohnR
 
Goodday John,

The DU bushes still seems a problem. We have a Xenon locally that had to have them replaced on 150 hours, but I believe ATA is addressing this problem too.

I fly from the right and have ATA's side trim system installed. I find it very effective and have kept the side trim on the arcaic string system. Here the system does work fairly well, and just a tuck seems to balance her out completely.

Well it is a magnificent day here so off we go into the blue!!!:D
 
... I've been comparing the Xenon to the Magni lately and it's interesting to see, and hear about some of the differences...

There is hardly any comparison.
The size of the cabin of M24 is a class below Zenon.
The width of the Zenon cabin is grater than Cessna 172!
In M24 they had to off-set the passenger seat against the pilot
to fit both inside.
I do not know your size, but if you are average US, you will hardl
fit into M-24. :)

.... To hear that any FAA inspection probably would have failed is pretty disconcerting, for me at least!
...
This is a basic misconception.
At the moment any gyroplane in the US is "kit build".
This is the owner/builder who is responsible for the quality of assembling.
 
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Yep try fitting 135 kg student nd 100 kg me in a m24 the xenon was the machine he could fit in,now happily flying nd loving it
 
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