Why is ultralight weight so hard to make with a gyro?

Jazzenjohn

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I've designed, built, and flown 4 different ultralight gyros. Amassing parts for a 2 place now.
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How come there isn't so much as a cocktail napkin sketch of the Rotorscooter on the website? Have you built anything at all on it?
 

Ron E

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Rooter Scooter Gyro

Rooter Scooter Gyro

How come there isn't so much as a cocktail napkin sketch of the Rotorscooter on the website? Have you built anything at all on it?

I would be very foolish to do so, because if I did that, I couldn't do this:

http://www.oblon.com/practice/index.php?id=20

Yes we have. Quite a lot. We've built two airframes and now building a third with carbon fiber tubing incorporated.

A full carbon fiber tube unit will be the 4th airframe. The more carbon fiber tube I contract for the lower the cost.

Then I will offer my carbon tubing to anyone who wants it to build their Gyrobees, Bensens or Afford-a-Planes, if they dare.
 
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Jazzenjohn

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Are you flying the first two? or patenting them before you fly them? Your patenting the airframe design? What do the first two weigh with which engine? When do you think they would be available, (I know of at least 2 people who lost their medicals who would be very interested).

I think you can be a little bit forthcoming without any risk at all of losing
patent protection, don't you?
 

Jazzenjohn

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Sorry Ron, I have been hearing about and been interested in ultralight tractor gyros for quite a while. Tim Blackwell built my first gyro and began building the Gyrodeere in 2004 using composite frame tubes and several other interesting design ideas. It had a complete frame and seat, the engine was mounted, rotorhead and control tubes in place, and stalled because of employment issues. Many interesting and innovative ideas left hanging.

You've been posting on the forum about your Rotorscooter build since 2007, also with several interesting ideas. After being on the forum for a while and IMHO, it seems that the encouragement of the forum people following the build often helps to get the building process "over the hump" and into the air. I'm sorry if I seemed pushy for information, I know very little about the intricacies of patent law and was only interested in seeing something new and different take to the air.
 

Ron E

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Jazzerjohn,

I posted in this thread only to raise the issue of using carbon fiber tubing to build stick-built gyros to make it easier to make it light, and strong.

I've had a couple of false starts in building this thing. This is why this project has taken so long, in part. All were under 254 pounds. But those early attempts lead to the current configuration.

The first and second airframes will not be the ones that fly. They have been cannibalized to build #3. Number 3 and #4 will be fully completed to fly and flight test. Number 3 has an MZ202 installed, with my new mast in place. The mast was the big deal item I changed from #1 and #2.

I am very happy with the final setup and now I can go forward and finish a flyable gyro. I'm on a fast track to finish it to show by Bensen Days and Sun 'N Fun.

The hang test shows the cg (with a 220 lb. pilot) and thrust line are where they must be to be a stable flyer.

I like the idea of reducing the weight. I have my Ulrawhite down to 286 pounds by just changing the wheels and brakes. I will save more by replacing the 503 with a MZ202. Then, it wouldn't take much more for it to become a true ultralight as well.
 
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jehicks87

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Why is ultralight weight so hard to make? Because the FAA hates general aviation and arbitrarily assigned a maximum weight, maximum fuel, maximum capacity limitation on the most basic and easily accessable way to fly.

Gotta love Big Brother, cause he loves you!
 

Chuck Roberg

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Why is ultralight weight so hard to make? Because the FAA hates general aviation and arbitrarily assigned a maximum weight, maximum fuel, maximum capacity limitation on the most basic and easily accessable way to fly.

That is totally untrue. The FAA actually went to the Ultralight community and asked them what they wanted/needed. Remember now this was back when the weight was 155 lbs. At that time most ultralights were foot launched. The Ultralight community asked for 254 lbs figuring that was more weight than they would ever need.

I was at a seminar with a talk from one of the fellas from the ultralight community that was involved with the FAA. He said if they would have asked for more weight he was sure they would have got it. Unfortunately after the FAA gives you something it's harder than hell to get it changed after the fact.
 

jehicks87

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That is totally untrue. The FAA actually went to the Ultralight community and asked them what they wanted/needed. Remember now this was back when the weight was 155 lbs. At that time most ultralights were foot launched. The Ultralight community asked for 254 lbs figuring that was more weight than they would ever need.

I was at a seminar with a talk from one of the fellas from the ultralight community that was involved with the FAA. He said if they would have asked for more weight he was sure they would have got it. Unfortunately after the FAA gives you something it's harder than hell to get it changed after the fact.

lol, no disrespect meant towards the FAA... remember, I work for the gu'mmnt too!

I'm poking fun at the weight limit, and they did take away the fat ultralight and two-place machines when they created the LSA. Although the formation of the LSA category itself points to the fact that the FAA is trying to encourage a bit more recreational flying.

Just out of curiousity, when was the weight restriction lifted from 155 lbs? I can't remember ever hearing it was that low (but keep in mind I'm a young gun...)
 
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