Why is ultralight weight so hard to make with a gyro?

C. Beaty

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Mike, it’s sort of like; who invented the wheel?

Many people have understood for a very long time that a dotted line in the center of the mast is less than desirable.

But I know of only one mast to have broken without first having rolled over.

An acquaintance, using 6063 as was common in those days, made a mistake in drilling the mast at the seat back on his Bensen and instead of throwing it away, flipped it 90º and drilled a new set of holes.

On a hard landing flare, the mast along with rotor parted company. There was no guy wire.
 

Aviomania

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One of the neat things about you Nicolas, is that you do not just follow the crowd design; you plow new ground and grow new and better ideas. And then you share them!

Thanks Ed for your nice words.
 

helipaddy

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I suppose in order to see where the weight reduction could be made to get true ultralight weight, you would have to weigh the parts that can't be made any lighter.

Rotax 503 92lbs (about 8lbs less for the 447)
Dragon wings blades and hub bar 42lbs
Rotor head 10lbs ish
Prerotator 14lbs (worth the weight penalty for useability and safety)
Seat tank 11lbs

Which leaves 85-95lbs lbs for the the airframe.

At approx 1.2lbs per foot of 6061T6 2x2 1/8, six foot for the mast and ten foot for the keel and boom works out at approx 20lbs

which leaves 65-75 lbs for everything else

Can it be done? and where on the airframe can the weight savings be easily achieved?
Did anyone weigh all the bolts required for a gyrobee?
 
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Lspav8r

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My Question is, why isnt that machine being looked at for a kit design? I would love to try one of those things out. I love that suspended tail on it. and it could even be made removeable for quick transport too. Are ther any plans or parts lists of what it took to build it?

Im refering to the machine in post #6.
 
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gyromike

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Chuck had some hand scribbled drawings for that machine. I have a copy, but they are not dimensioned drawings that you could take to a machine shop.
And you would need a machine shop to build some of the parts. Probably why no one has copied it yet. Making brackets and saddles to mate up to 3" round tubing is a bit more work that slapping flat plate up against 2" square tubing and drilling a hole.
 

Wiplash

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I agree Jim it'd neat to see a few of those birds in the air.

I was given a link to some drawings of "that machine" (I'm calling it the CB1) from a website. Although I seem to remember seeing another name for it on these boards but don't recall it.

They're rough drawings but there's enough there to get you started.

It'd be a nice project to start. Once I get more building experience I'm planning on tackling it myself.

:whip:
 
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Resasi

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Just seen that Nicolas, yet another great idea.:first:

Seem to remember a while back some guy on the forum approaching CB offering to do CAD drawings of that gyro and asking a number of questions about how various bit had been done. I am not aware of whether he pursued this or not.
 

Lspav8r

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Plans

Plans

I have aquired the hand drawn plans but it would really be nice to talk to the designer/builder of this machine to work out some of the details on it, as well as anyone who has flown it to get more information on its performance and other little things about it..:peace:
Chuck had some hand scribbled drawings for that machine. I have a copy, but they are not dimensioned drawings that you could take to a machine shop.
And you would need a machine shop to build some of the parts. Probably why no one has copied it yet. Making brackets and saddles to mate up to 3" round tubing is a bit more work that slapping flat plate up against 2" square tubing and drilling a hole.
 

Greg Mitchell

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Emporer Butterfly makes the weight.

Emporer Butterfly makes the weight.

My first Butterfly was an Emperor 503 with Benson Blades and a 5 gall Brock seat tank.......less than 254 lbs no problems.

That was with Statomaster instruments, disc brakes and no pre-rotator.

Mitch.
 

tyc

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It sure does perform well. If I remember correctly, he said it weighed 240 lbs.Here's a picture of me about to take it for a spin

If I may ask, what make and model is that? I for one would be interested in knowing more about the machine.

tyc
 

John Stahl

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Bits and pieces but enough

Bits and pieces but enough

I have been looking for drawings of chucks gyro. I have only gotten bits and pieces but there is enough that I feel I could build a gyro that is very similar to chucks. The only thing I don’t have enough info on is the tail and how he got it strong enough to land on.
 

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John Stahl

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The thing that really impresses me with chucks design there is so little waste.
If you look at the frame the bolt that holds the lower gang plates are also the holding the struts brackets. At the top they are also holding the motor mount tubes.
There is no drilling through the mast tubing other than the gang plates allowing lighter tubing to be used.
Then if you look at the gyro from stability in flight and safety point of view the HS is as far back as you can get it. It is center line thrust. It has enough power that makes it safe and the fuel tank is not under the engine.

The design is brilliant.
 

Wiplash

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On the subject on Chuck's machine.

What's the skinny on his lead/lag rotor head?

How does the design measure up to a teetering head?

What are the advantages/disadvantages of one over the other?

Is there any reason the lead/lag head wouldn't work on a typical gyro?

And Finnaly...

Is there any reason a teetering head wouldn't work on his gyro?


:eek:

Hope you don't mind all this attention Chuck :D


:whip:
 

Passin' Thru

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On the subject on Chuck's machine.

What's the skinny on his lead/lag rotor head?

How does the design measure up to a teetering head?

What are the advantages/disadvantages of one over the other?

Is there any reason the lead/lag head wouldn't work on a typical gyro?

And Finnaly...

Is there any reason a teetering head wouldn't work on his gyro?


:eek::whip:

Hey mistah Whiplash, I ain’t Chuck by any stretch, but I’m presumptuous enough to offer my opinions!:eek:
First, let’s see if we can un-ravel and decipher your questions.


“What's the skinny on his lead/lag rotor head?”
I assume you’re referring to his “slider head”? Based on my home made copy and all I’ve heard, it works great! It effectively smoothes out the inherent fore and aft 2-rev. shake.

How does the design measure up to a teetering head?
It IS a teetering gimbaled head with the slider feature. It merely absorbs any fore and aft shake.

Is there any reason the lead/lag head wouldn't work on a typical gyro?
Assuming you are referring to the “slider” gimbaled head, it works great on any gyro.

Is there any reason a teetering head wouldn't work on his gyro?
I assume you mean a “regular” gimbaled head without the “slider” feature? I have to be careful here; … Yes, BUT! It would sorta work, but you wouldn’t like it, it would beat your brains out! Somewhere Chuck wrote about his experiments with that gyro and how they led to his developing the slider head. Later tonight I’ll try to find it and copy – paste his own words.

Edit to clarify a point; The actual head on Chucks gyro is a bit different from the conventional design in that he designed it for a "yoke" type rotor hub with the teeter tower passing up thru the center rther than straddling the hub bar as usual. This is to increase the rotor's in plane stiffness. He designed it around 3206 double row bearing to keep the width down within reason.
 
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Lspav8r

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I am beside myself with the warm and fuzzy feelings of having this little gyro talked about so much. I just hope we can keep it up and not change anything from Chucks design. Lets keep it going guys and see if this little thing cant be figured out and possibly produced in some quantities in the future. This is the Every Man gyro I was posting about before. I just didnt know it had already been designed and built/flown, and liked by those that did fly it.:whoo::humble:
 

Lspav8r

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Thank You so much

Thank You so much

I have been looking for drawings of chucks gyro. I have only gotten bits and pieces but there is enough that I feel I could build a gyro that is very similar to chucks. The only thing I don’t have enough info on is the tail and how he got it strong enough to land on.

This is the closest thing I have seen to the hand drawn plans I have, and should yield a great deal of information to make it possible to get an idea what the material to build it should cost.:first::hail:
 

Lspav8r

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Sleeves?

Sleeves?

I have been looking for drawings of chucks gyro. I have only gotten bits and pieces but there is enough that I feel I could build a gyro that is very similar to chucks. The only thing I don’t have enough info on is the tail and how he got it strong enough to land on.

I would think that sleeved tubing in the areas where the clamps hold on to the Keel and Boom as well as the Mast would take care of the stress points and not add more than half a pound or so. Perhaps Chuck could elaborate on this.

I dont claim to be an aeronautical engineer but I can put a hell of a lot of fire out with not a hell of a lot of water:focus:
 
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