Who gave you permission to touch my aircraft?

cgmg

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El Paso, IL.
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Empty hangar right now, have owned and flown Air Command & RAF
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I share my hangar with two other fixed wings. The guy who has been there the longest has over 50% of the floor space. The new guy and I share the less-than-other half. The new guy angles his plane in so I have about 8 feet of width along the north wall for my machine.

When I back my machine in, my rear blade hangs over the oldest guy's floor space. He's shorter than me, so I tie my blades so the rear blade should be above his head height. Most times my blade tip is within four feet of the north wall. I angle my machine slightly so as to keep the blade as close to the wall as possible, yet leave room for the new guy to get his machine out without touching my gyro.

We all agreed that we would not handle each other's machine unless it was absolutely necessary.

I've noticed the last couple of times that the knot I normally tie was different, but thought that maybe it had come loose, and someone had retied it for me.

Last night, I come up to the hangar, walk over to the doors, and start pulling my door open. As I'm backing up along the door track with the door, I hit my front blade with my shoulder blade. It hurt like hell, as it was the trailing edge. Looking at my blades, the front one is tied down so tight, it's tight against the teeter stops, and against my rotor brake!

I am now thoroughly pissed, as now I am positive someone re-adjusted my blades. Later that night, the new guy shows up, and I ask him about my blades. Dennis tells me that Tom, the other guy had re-tied them earlier that day, when Dennis and he were there.

When I get home that night, I call Tom. He admits that he has re-tied my blades several times, as he keeps walking into them. I don't really understand how that can be happening, as he is shorter than I am. When I ask why he didn't contact me, his excuse was that we were never at the hangar together(he has my phone number). I explained that he had tied them much tighter than I felt was necessary, and was really uncomfortable with his actions. I explained that those are my flight surfaces and controls he had been messing with. Tom did apologize for his actions eventually.

I explained to Tom that I was trying to be a good hangar neighbor, by accomodating both neighbors at my inconvenience. But I also reiterated that I felt it was out of line for him to handle my aircraft.

After a few more minutes of discussion, I told Tom I would now hang something on the blade to make it visible to anyone walking around, even if their head was down. I now have two very bright old neckties hanging down from the last 2 feet of the blades. If you now walk into my blades, you have to be blind, and over 6 1/2 feet tall(about the height they are normally at).

My question to the rest of you: Do I have right to be pissed about this guy's actions, or was I in the wrong? Note: If I had ever touched Tom's machine like this, there would have been World War 3 in our hangar. He gets upset with the other guy because he doesn't properly store his tools/etc., to Tom's liking on the shelves. And we each have our own sets of shelving.

Let me know what you think.

Thanks
 

david holmes

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Trivia,
Let the little things stay little things.
You should have mentioned it to him as you did.
 

Timchick

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I think you were right to mention it to him but then wait til the next time after you've talked to him to get pissed about it.
 

Rehan K.Janjua

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Hello Mark.

Kind of know how you feel. Its the dear possision that makes us upset.
Specially when it comes to gyro.

Glad you got to know eventually.

You have put your point through, so now the other guy should be extra careful. Keep an eye on and see.

Regards.
Rehan
 

dragonflyerthom

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I presently have a T type hanger which I am going to enclose. It is so inexpensive I don't mind enclosing it. I sure hope I don't have that problem with my neighbors..


Thom
 

Thomas

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Problem vs Solution

Problem vs Solution

I did all my flying in a group setting, both military and civilian; so I have little idea what frustrations you are feeling. Group dynamics number one rule is; communication. Set rules and live by them, but seems the rules you all have set are not adequately thought out to accommodate all senarios. So ........ back to the drawing board.

1. Write down the problem, each problem separately.
2. Think through the solutions to each problem, note the word solutions is plural.
3. Think through the restrictions associated with each solution.
4. Choose the most plausible and rethink the effects on the total system.
5. Make a presentation or group think this process.
6. Impliment the solution or solutions and keep track of real time changes for a specific period of time.
7. Make necessary corrections at the end of the research period and reimpliment the solution.

Ergonomics is also at play. Seems a gyro is small enough to fit into a tool shed you could buy at Home Depot.

Mark everything that is yours like they did out west with cattle.

Think safety not just in flying but in everything surrounding the aviation environment. Put "wet floor" cones down over spills, bright orange dangly things on anything unobvious and most things obvious. Connect a buzzer to hangar doors that go off anytime the doors move. Don't run with sharp object in your hand. Put decals on plate glass doors, nonslide mats at corners. Paint parking lines on the floor. Hang a tennis ball at stopping points to keep from hitting walls and other objects when ground handling the aircraft. Sign in and sign out sheets for people and equipment, duty rosters, time allocations, visitor policies, install a blackboard for notes - activities - plans - ideas - hello's and good buys .... and Lots lots more......

I have never built a machine so I have no idea how attached I would be to something I own. But in group settings there are usually standards that all follow and expect, even what kind of knot will be used to tie down an aircraft.

Arguments are a result of frustration and frustration is a result of expectations not being met. We all enter into situations with our own set of expectations and think they are the same with everybody, that is an error in reasoning. Unless movement is regulated to prestated standards you run risk of accidents both in the air and on the ground.

I really don't know what you are going through so please don't think I am being arrogant, I am really trying to help. I have lived my whole life following rules so I know no other way, And even then I piss people off. So maybe getting pissed is normal regardless of what you do.

Thomas :eek:
 

animal

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I think you where very justified to be upset, you need to have a sit down with both these people and explain that, the blades are your controls and flight surfaces. I mean for that matter the guy very well could have pulled them down to where it could damage them. blades only flex so much.
I don't think he would like it if you went and pushed his plane out by the rudder or elevator.

when I had my Dusty 2 helicopter and my scorpion in my shop with the blades on, there was always someone that would reach up and pull down on the blades trying to get a better look at them. I would in no uncertain terms let them know NOT to do that again.

I am surprised another pilot would not respect your aircraft better then that.

I have a Friend that flew his war bird into a EAA fly-in, while there some guy put his kid on the wings and this kid was walking up and down and jumping on it. He waited till after the show and followed the guy and his kid to the parking lot. and perceded to jump up and down on the guys car top. the guys asked him what the he$$ he was doing and he replied, well it was OK for your kind to jump up and down on my war birds wing.

Needless to say he got the point across.
 

Vance

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I have not found much value in anger.

I have found that holding resentment is a little like taking poison and expecting the other fellow to die.

I haven’t had much luck telling people what to do.

When I am trying to modify someone’s behavior, it works best for me if I approach it as a sales opportunity. I make sure what behavior it is I am trying to sell. I began by asking for their objection to doing it my way. Often their objection has nothing to do with the behavior. This makes it easier to overcome their objection and close the sale.

Mark, I am not saying you were wrong to be angry. I am only describing what works for me. What you did worked for you.

Thank you, Vance
 

M. Pearce

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Mark,
I would have kicked his A-- and then bought him a beer and made up afterwards. Communication at times does involve a B-slap or two. This guy could have broke something and worse you could have found out about it 6000 or 7000 feet up. I wouldn't worry about it now because you got your good words understood and your blood pressure is back to normal maybe. I have rented/shared space like this before and it never worked out for me. My wife says it's because I'm the A-hole and maybe she's right. But my stuff doesn't get jacked with by anyone now. No ghost live in my shop as long as I have the only key. Good hangars must be hard to come by these days?
 

Eric62

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Wolf Creek
Hangar

Hangar

Mark,
I had the same problem with two of my machines kept in a large hangar with up to six other aircraft. I used to fly most weekends & some week days
where most of the planes would be lucky to fly once a month . Trouble was that they thought my gyro's were just 'toys' , not real aircraft like theirs &
werent worried how they handled them . I would arrive at the hangar to find my machines boxed in behind two or three planes , with the rotors tied down too tight or up against the wall #&*$ ! .
Or they would have their kids with them & they would pull back the covers to get a look underneath & put their sticky little hands all over it:mad:
Because of the number of different people coming & going it was hard to communicate with all of them , but luckily one of the club pilots ( who understood how I felt ) helped me get things sorted.

Maybe you could get large blocks of foam to slip over the ends of your blades &/or fit support towers under each end of the rotors to do away with tie down rope ( or just push the two planes out in the open & change the locks ......?:rolleyes: )
Echo
 

scottessex

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If anyone here complains I'll just push thiers out side!!! Right John, Phil.
 

Phil_Ruffin

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No complaints here 'Ol Buddy, you fine fella, none better, master craftsman, friend of mine......:)

There now, that should keep it outta the rain. :p
 

StanFoster

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Mark: I would have done just the same as you did....brought the matter to immediate attention. If it happened a second time....they would not even think I was the same person. Stuff like this has got to be dealt with quickly and firmly.

Stan
 

GyroRon

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Tom....??? Whatcha mean? Ole Kenny put a hurting on a 40+ grand airplane with a 5-6 grand paint job. I didn't hurt his machine! He got off good as the cheapest estimate I had to " fix " it was 600$, I sold the plane as is and Ken didn't have to pay anything
 

KenSandyEggo

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"I sold the plane as is and Ken didn't have to pay anything"

Like I would have. :p
 

Caribean_gyro

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lay out the rules

lay out the rules

Mark you did right. let me tell you my own ordeal.

I have a hangar for 6 aircraft. But we only had my partner kitfox in construction my 2 gyros and a Hely underconstruction. WE thought that since the guy love building it was a nice marriage. WRONG!! Is dificult to spot an SOB!!.

since he was paying a rent he thought he can :
1 use my compresor
2:use all my clecos
3: generator
:tools
filled 3 garbage cans and not empty them. use the mowing tractor to pull the heli until the transmition went KA PUT. ETC ETC.

Whos problem is this mine. SInce I never layout off front , this what I lke , dont like , your right and the donts.

But we thought he had good maners and ask every time. NO WAY JOSE!!

SO is good to sit down and both layout things that bother before it becomes a hugh issue and becasue like me I needed the rent I couldnt kick him out.

Finally he made his own hangar and spend a fortune plus now he has to clean his own toilet.

Now I am renting space in my place any interest!!. Req. Have to love rotorcraft, like, beer,wine,rum,vodka,gin,wiskey, like to do parties every 2 month. Clean his mess and when is time to put up with cash for what ever can not have crabs in pocket.

ChuckP:D
 

Thomas

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Hot Topic

Hot Topic

Looks like this is an issue that strikes a cord with many. I am a trained manager which means nothing except I am able to see mistakes made in an organizataional setting dealing with people and material ... which, again, means nothing because I often am in no position to change anything. It is simply a curse of frustration seeing an accident in process but being helpless to get there in time to alter the outcome.

Those who like to "B-slap" and resort to insults and demoralizing language are adding to the problem whether you admit to being an A-hole or not. That good feeling you are getting lowering anothers self respect is short lived and leads to yet more problems. Small groups are a form of civilization and all civilized behavior is one of compromise and tolerance. All people, unless they are psychotic, are designed to follow instructions. If people in your life are behaving in ways that aggrivate you it is because they are unaware of your expectations.

If you are unable to post a very large sign stating to keep away from your aircraft, or cover it from view, or restrict access to it in some way then you have to state what you want to those in your environment. Stating it just once often will not be enough either. Who, What, Where, When and How ... and when needed WHY. Put something in each of these categories when making your plea to the group.

We are all children in some fashion and as such we are most curious about new events, changes in our environment and restricted things. Even those of you who think violence and destroying others property to make a point is satisfactory, justified, legal and effective follow these same behavior patterns of curiousity. Again, that good feeling you have by doing to others might only result in having your rotor separate at a most inconvenient time.

As for blade durability, seems logical to expect a system that withstands torque issues in flight would somehow become so delicate when on the ground. I expect you could stand on any rotor blade and not have to worry it was going to break. It is not a diving board and that is what is going through your mind seeing others misuse it. But it is durable and should never be cause for you or any of your "buds" to abuse someones automobile top which is not designed to carry weight. Get my point? Some people respect you because you are an aviator, I personally do not. And if I saw you abuse someone that way I'd have you arrested.

Anybody wanting to be "macho" there is a war going on, you can go play there anytime.

That goes equally for those of you who go along with this type of explanation to solve problems.

I would rather this thread end now than have to read any more credit being giving to this type of mentality.

Anyway, that is just me.

Thomas
 

animal

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Thomas, if you think for a minute that experiamental rotors are strong enough to walk on and abuse, then I sure don't want to fly with you.

Even commercial blades are weak when they are not turning. the spinning force makes the blades ridgid for flight. when the blades are not turning you can very easily pull a blade down enough to bend or warp it. look at RAF blades, they even say to support the blades when stored.

Also if you go back and read the Guy that jumped on the car top was not me,but a guy I know, and the kid was jumping up and down on a $150,000 warbird.
what I failed to mention was that, the owner asked the guy repeated times to not let the kid climb on the plane.

So I guess you feel it is alright to let someone just disrespect your aircraft and damage it.
 
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