When to recognize decline

[Abid]

This accident shows how a 2300 hour, 20 year experienced airplane pilot can be caught doing the most simple basic mistakes killing his family because he was just slightly distracted and his mind could no longer handle multi-tasking on anything out of his ordinary. This is the time you start to realize its time to hang it up.

 

[WaspAir]

his mind could no longer handle multi-tasking on anything out of his ordinary. This is the time you start to realize its time to hang it up.

"No longer"?
You seem spring-loaded to blame this on age. People get distracted, make chains of mistakes, lose situational awareness, and have bad days at any level of maturity. There is no comment in the Probable Cause (so far as shown in the video, anyway) about any impairment.

What sort of pilot was this guy ten years before? I don't think we have any clue about that.

When to hang it up is a valid concern, but this is not a clean example.

 

[Abid]

"No longer"?
You seem spring-loaded to blame this on age. People get distracted, make chains of mistakes, lose situational awareness, and have bad days at any level of maturity. There is no comment in the Probable Cause (so far as shown in the video, anyway) about any impairment.

What sort of pilot was this guy ten years before? I don't think we have any clue about that.

When to hang it up is a valid concern, but this is not a clean example.

You can draw your own conclusions. Its is pretty straight forward. The flight never went into IMC and remained VFR the whole way. There should have been no drama.

 

[Doug Riley]

Jeez, where to begin? It's all human factors, of course.

Get-there-itis is more likely to affect a younger person. Patience, and even a willingness to disappoint people waiting for you, come with age.

The hinky chain-of-command (and possible background personal friction between the two "pilots") meant that it was unclear who was the captain -- the person who was to make the definitive decisions. An airplane or vessel must be a clear dictatorship, however friendly.

Texting while piloting? Really?

I believe that cross-country flying (especially in a high-performance plane), keeping tight schedules and carrying passengers, is not reasonably safe without IFR capacity in both pilot and aircraft. The urge to "press on regardless" is overwhelming. A G.A. airplane isn't a substitute for a car unless it is loaded with electronics and has a pilot who knows how to use them. Even then, it's got only one 1940's-designed piston engine, no in-flight de-icing, and can't fly above the weather.

Sounds like Dad was an Alpha Male ("I got this!") who allowed pride to blind him to the fact that he was getting overloaded and out of his depth. Both young and old Alphas do this; the older ones may, as Abid suggests, may be especially unable to review their current abilities objectively. An older Alpha is apt to get extra-angry if he's not performing well and his "subordinates" are seeing it happen. The anger reduces his performance, making him angrier still, and cycle repeats itself. Anger makes a normal person very, very stupid.

BTW, over the years, I've made just about all these mistakes -- in backpacking, sailing and flying. The fact that I'm here and this Bonanza crew is not is dumb luck. You only can hope that you learn from surviving these near-death experiences.

 

[Abid]

Doug exactly. Age for an experienced pilot is one factor that can possibly take our humility and with it our objectivity away. When that starts to happen it’s time to hand controls over.

Tons of mistakes in a chain starting with the decision to go to start but they did get there and it was VFR on the field. In the end all the indications along the way that the father really did not have it together were ignored and his deteriorated decision making and skill level killed the family

 

[Brent Drake]

Most daughters have 100% confidence in their dads.

 

[EI-GYRO]

A daisy-chain of commitments and associated distractions was a large consideration in this incident.

 

[loftus]

I'm with Abid on this one, seems like the dad got a lot of things wrong for someone with 2300 hours. Seemed like he was unfamiliar with the aircraft in a lot of ways, confused about runways and airport identifiers etc. Definitely seemed impaired for some reason with poor situational awareness and ADM, and then flying a high performance aircraft that he seemed unfamiliar with. Age, bad night's sleep, hungover, lack of currency, who knows?

 

[Mayfield]

As a 76-year-old instructor currently instructing his late middle-aged daughter in an airplane, I literally shudder watching this video. There were so many times when the accident chain could have been broken.

I can't promise that Penny and I won't be killed in a flight training accident tomorrow. Wish I could.

What I can promise is that we will start planning tomorrow's mission tonight. She will brief the weather in the morning before we drive to the airport. She will carefully preflight the aircraft and we will both perform the PAVE and IMSAFE checklists at a minimum.

On every flight we articulate cockpit duties. Since she is still learning (shouldn't we all still be learning?) we have three step exchange of flight controls and three step exchange of communications (RT). Sometimes she is pilot flying and I am pilot communicating. Sometimes those tasks are reversed. This is particularly useful when she is in a high workload environment for the first time. I have RT. You have RT. I have RT. At that point I assume responsibility for all communications tasks.

We have a somewhat formal takeoff briefing that includes who is pilot flying, who is pilot in command (me at this point) runway in use, engine failure on the ground, below 500 feet, and above 500 feet. The briefing is tailored to the location.

It sounds like overkill, but we don't have to fly professionally to fly professionally.

Have I lost capacity as I age? Almost certainly. My night vision is not as sharp, my G tolerance is not as high, my reflexes are not as fast.

But I still strive for smoothness and finesse. I don't want my passengers to detect the stick moving in normal flight maneuvers. I want to land my airplane at or near Vso every time. I want to land my gyro at or near zero ground speed every time. I want to land the helicopter on the H or on the trailer within an inch of centered every time.

I pray I will know when my skill, memory, and attitude decays to the point of being unsafe.

I forwarded the video to my daughter. She will be appalled.

Jim

 

[Abid]

My point generally here is having 2300 hours and years of flying experience meant nothing in this flight and this airplane. Time in type and currency are more important than overall time. Edit to Add: In this case, the pilot had familiarity with this airplane but was flying from the right seat for the first time. That is all it took to get him distracted and confused.
Obviously, his decision making and confusion point to deteriorating mental function under slightly stressful situation.

 

[WaspAir]

On that topic, it might be worth noting that nobody is immune, regardless of age. I have seen judgment go all to pieces in 20-something pilots from something as simple as dehydration in warm, dry western air. You can be incompetent one day and fine the next, without a sustained continuing decline, and without advanced age.

 

[Abid]

On that topic, it might be worth noting that nobody is immune, regardless of age. I have seen judgment go all to pieces in 20-something pilots from something as simple as dehydration in warm, dry western air. You can be incompetent one day and fine the next, without a sustained continuing decline, and without advanced age.

So, you are saying that in this accident that pilot had bad judgment and confusion because he may have been dehydrated or something similar. A onetime medically related occurrence?
If so, I tend to respectfully disagree. What is clear to me is that he was flying from the right seat for the first time in that airplane. He had owned and operated that airplane for months before. Just the change in seat made him unable to adapt to PTT switch position for radio calls even after repeats and his sight picture was different. He probably would have done much better if he had taken a couple of hours at his familiar local airport and gone up with another experienced pilot and flew from the right seat with a safety pilot before going out on a XC with his daughter. What has declined to me is his ability to adapt.

 

[WaspAir]

So, you are saying that in this accident that pilot had bad judgment and confusion because he may have been dehydrated or something similar. A onetime medically related occurrence?
If so, I tend to respectfully disagree. What is clear to me is that he was flying from the right seat for the first time in that airplane. He had owned and operated that airplane for months before. Just the change in seat made him unable to adapt to PTT switch position for radio calls even after repeats and his sight picture was different. He probably would have done much better if he had taken a couple of hours at his familiar local airport and gone up with another experienced pilot and flew from the right seat with a safety pilot before going out on a XC with his daughter. What has declined to me is his ability to adapt.

No, not at all. You are reading as much into my answer that isn't there as you are reading into the accident situation that isn't in the facts.

 

[Abid]

No, not at all. You are reading as much into my answer that isn't there as you are reading into the accident situation that isn't in the facts.

What am I reading into the accident that isn't in the facts.
He owned the airplane for a few months. This was his first flight with his daughter taking the left seat in that airplane.
He was confused right from the start with the ATC making incorrect airport identification and not learning where the radio buttons were. He maintained and worsened that confusion and continued making bad decisions through the flight and when he finally got to the destination and could approach and land VFR at the airport, he completely botched up the airspeed and patterns and then continued to decide to land after a bad landing when he could have easily gone around multiple times. Sounds like he started slightly bad and just kept getting worse and did not have the recognition that he was not going to do good to hand things over to his daughter and explain why.
I guess the thing you are telling me is that you don't believe there is any indication that his age contributed to his non-adaptation to changing seats and new situation with a bit of distraction. You are saying this happens to young people also. Yes it does. When they are very new pilots. This was a 2300 hour pilot.

 

[SpyderMike]

And away we go!

 

[PJB]

He's a thing. Someone said it already - aircraft are not cars. You can't just pull over and take a look at the map, work out where x, y, z switch is, how the tech works, how to land, etc. But also father / daughter / son / wife relationships and learning forget it. They can get way way too emotive. I'm not sure the age was as much as a thing as all of the other peripheral distraction.

 

[Doug Riley]

I teach at a couple sailing schools. The learning is almost always significantly better when we put related students (husband-wife especially) in separate boats.

The Alpha Male husbands are especially maddening to deal with. You hate to be harsh with a paying customer, but sometimes a soft touch is not enough. Reading between the lines, one suspects that the dad/owner in this crash story was that sort.