Whats the difference, Trendak, Argo, Celier??

Steve_UK

Active Member
Key points to note

ABS original manufactures, in France - Hirth engine - maybe 15 kits sold

CA formed and production moved to Jaktorow, Poland - Xenon 2 with Rotax engine sells well, up to approx ship #150

CA dissolve circa 2011/2012 - partners becomes AAT ( Aviation Artur Trendak ) and "new CA" - AAT remains at Jaktorow with tooling and staff and continues building from approx ship #150 onwards initially as Zen1 and later refined Tercel - over 100 built to date by AAT, still active today with current production now at approx ship #275

"New CA" sets up new production line but moves severla times - ends up in Piotrokow Trybunal, Poland taking parts from MBL - builds three Xenon 2 and then approx twenty examples of refined Xenon IV - "New CA" moves on to Malta, no production known.

Fly Argo offers CA Xenon IV product and now appears to offer to build new Xenon IVs as Argo 915 - no deliveries known

Air Gyro USA originally a dealer for AAT ( imported several Tercels into USA ) now offers AG915 and confirms this will be parts supplied by MBL for kit building in US with a Rotax 915 - as yet no AG915 kits in USA, three kits said to be en route - marketing shows a modified Celier built Xenon IV SP-XNON ( built 2016 ) now fitted with a 915 flying in Poland being used to promote AG915.



That's my understanding but corrections, updates welcom, good luck making your choice
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Thank you Steve!!!

I always learn a lot when I spend time with the information you have collected and collated.

It is so nice to learn from reality instead reading of fantasy and fear mongering.
 

ventana7

Gold Member
Steve wrote a pretty good history.

Of the ABS (Xenon gen 1) machines only 1 was in the US and it is not still flying. Not sure about the others sold in France but the Hirth engine had many failures.

I was the initial US importer for the second generation Xenons made in the AAT factory in Poland in 2007-2008. The 10 gyros I imported are registered E-LSA and the only gyros registered that way. Others were later brought in as Experimental and these are mostly Generation 3 Zen/Tercels. After the split between Artur Trendak and Raphael Celier CA moved around 3-4 times but each time his partners kicked him out as Artur Trendak had. Raphael Celier ripped off people in about 5 different countries and never provided support for most of stuff he sold. Steer clear of him

AAT has not had very consistent US representation. I was the first US rep and sold 10 gyros in less than a year, followed by Mike Bantum for 3-4 years even though he only sold 1-2 gyros. Chris Lord repped both AAT and Celier for a time. The AAT factory is good but it would be far better if you could work with a US rep for parts and service etc.

I don't know anything about the Argo.

Rob Dubin
www.gyroamerica.com
 

NJpilot

Newbie
Rob's summary is as I understand it as well. Like Rod, the whole Argo Aero is new to me.

It looks like Argo Aero is the new Celier Aviation per the Argo Aero website that states:

"Celier Aviation Ltd. that change into ARGO Aero Sp z o.o

Al. Katowicka, 11 05-830 Wolica/Warsaw, Poland

-------------------------------------------------------

VAT : 1231208563 | Regon: 142314725 KRS:0000355281

District Court for the Capital City of Warsaw, XIV Business Division"

I thought Celier Aviation was moving to Malta. Is Raphael Celier still involved with the Xenon?

John
 

NJpilot

Newbie
Putting aside the politics between these two companies can anybody comment on any flight characteristic differences between the Xenon 4 and the Tercel?
 

All_In

Gold Supporter
This is all hearsay but from the owner's mouth. I would not personally have any dealings with Celler he has ripped off at least 5 PRA members, had at least 3 new machines have forced landings 2 because of wires shorting out through the cabin to the engine compartment and did not warranty it. 1 had an engine out. The customer called and asked where to have it repaired. Celler told him to take the head off and send him a picture. He did and then Celler told him that Celler could not repair it for him under warranty because HE TOOK THE HEAD OFF as instructed by Celler.


Do a search on Celler on this forum and you will still find many complaints.

Here is one of the first dealer's histories working with them.

"
Of the ABS (Xenon gen 1) machines only 1 was in the US and it is not still flying. Not sure about the others sold in France but the Hirth engine had many failures.

I was the initial US importer for the second generation Xenons made in the AAT factory in Poland in 2007-2008. The 10 gyros I imported are registered E-LSA and the only gyros registered that way. Others were later brought in as Experimental and these are mostly Generation 3 Zen/Tercels. After the split between Artur Trendak and Raphael Celier CA moved around 3-4 times but each time his partners kicked him out as Artur Trendak had. Raphael Celier ripped off people in about 5 different countries and never provided support for most of stuff he sold. Steer clear of him

AAT has not had very consistent US representation. I was the first US rep and sold 10 gyros in less than a year, followed by Mike Bantum for 3-4 years even though he only sold 1-2 gyros. Chris Lord repped both AAT and Celier for a time. The AAT factory is good but it would be far better if you could work with a US rep for parts and service etc.

I don't know anything about the Argo.

Rob Dubin
www.gyroamerica.com
Here is a link to above to learn more....
 

Greg Vos

Newbie
Fly Argo have secured a client in SA, a well respected Cessna and beach agent who is considering adding gyro to their product offering.
I was approached to take care of flight training and to assist in drawing up a robust marketing plan to bring the gyro into the commercial segment that is under traded here.

In dealing with FA now for a few months they have informed me that they have the full manufacturing rights to the CA range as well as the Sanke light helicopter, I will be going to Poland to flight test the aircraft before it comes out here, currently we are frustrated getting it designated within our CAA
Here are pics of the unit that has been ordered by Absolute Aviation
 

Attachments

All_In

Gold Supporter
Fly Argo have secured a client in SA, a well respected Cessna and beach agent who is considering adding gyro to their product offering.
I was approached to take care of flight training and to assist in drawing up a robust marketing plan to bring the gyro into the commercial segment that is under traded here.

In dealing with FA now for a few months they have informed me that they have the full manufacturing rights to the CA range as well as the Sanke light helicopter, I will be going to Poland to flight test the aircraft before it comes out here, currently we are frustrated getting it designated within our CAA
Here are pics of the unit that has been ordered by Absolute Aviation
Which partner are you contracting with? Arthur or Celler?
 

Greg Vos

Newbie
Which partner are you contracting with? Arthur or Celler?
Fly Argo have purchased the rights to the CA blueprints and plans they have nothing to do with the old regime from what I understand they are a new player hoping to make a success
 

All_In

Gold Supporter
Fly Argo have purchased the rights to the CA blueprints and plans they have nothing to do with the old regime from what I understand they are a new player hoping to make a success
Thank you, that is encouraging news. Let's hope their warranty and after sale support is much better than the other two companies.
 
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