What is an Aviomania Genesis Quick Build kit?

[All_In]

Aviomania 51% Quick Build kit in 169 hours = We'll see?

After seeing how little the MTO's and other European manufactures have to put together to qualify. Nicolas has created a true 51% kit and we are going to get approved through the FAA next using this 1st kit I believe as the example.

At least we will try!

Where Stan and Gary had to build as much as 70% to 80% and paint them.

Using Gary's time of about 300 hours he calculated to build his at about 70% of the build.
That should interpolate to a savings in time of at least 81 hours!
Plus ALL the time it took to take it apart after 1st assembly paint and put back together! Maybe 20 to 40 hours more saving just by painting in the Quick build kit!

As paint is not part of the FAA build percentages it doesn't USE up any of the percentage of the build tasks but is a major saving in time for our customers.

I'm building the 1st QUICK BUILD Kit come by the vitural hange here and hang out https://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40353

It cost a little more but instead of building about 70% of the kit the quick build kit comes some part powered coated, and some painted and some of the cut are done and parts are assemble and attached. The entire tail is finished painted and decal-ed.

That should mean I will build this one in 169 hours! Gary could have, if we had know at that time.

We'll all see, I'm sure I will be the most inexperienced builder in history so good example for a slow poke!
Might take me 300 hours for the quick build but either way you all will know.

Price list is in Euros, I must list it prices in Euros as the exchange rate fluctuates on a daily/hourly basis! The rate on 4/13/2014 @ 2:50 PM PST was 1.385. That a little high form normal 1.345 per dollar. To calculate dollars just multiply 1.385 * 14,700 Euros = $20,359.50 dollars at today rate for 1 place and $24,930.00 for the two-place.

Single place Genesis:
G1Sa Quick built kit ALL EXTRAS but NO Engine, radiator, prop & rectifier and other engine accessories......: 14,700.00
As above but with engine, instruments, mast, rotor system, landing gear and tail dis-assembled for the builder
to install. All parts are finished ready to be installed. Engine and instruments need the wiring and pluming to be
done by the builder with parts we supply. All metal parts powder coated / painted. Composite parts need finishing
As above but with instruments, mast, rotor system, landing gear and tail dis-assembled for the builder to install.
All parts are finished ready to be installed. Instruments need the wiring and pluming to be done by the builder with
parts we supply. All metal parts powder coated or painted. Composite parts need finishing. All engine accessories are not
included (i.e. fuel lines, fuel / air filters, throttle leavers and cables, pluming hoses etc)
Same kit but WITHOUT instruments and electrics .............................................................. 13,600.00


Two-place Genesis:
G2SA Quick built Kit Prices:
Full Kit (no engine, engine access., prop, instruments)...........................18,000.00
The above includes metal suspension U/C, mechanical prerotator, 28’ high performance rotor, rotor brake,
polished controls & rotor head, Mechanical brakes, kevlar re-enforced 15 gallon fuel tank, Composite
Nose pod & main wheel pants, 2 seats with cushions, Safety harnesses, aluminum Tail.
Mast, rotor system, landing gear and tail dis-assembled for the builder to install. All metal parts powder coated / painted.
Composite parts need finishing. Tail needs the HS to be installed on the vertical stab. This Kits require the minimum
work to be done but still within the 51% rule.

PS:
I posted this in my build tread answer Stan's response that the quick build kit was the way to go. I thought it should have it own thread to explain whats the advantage is as I've received emails asking.

 

[All_In]

Aviomania Other Quick Build Services now available

Aviomania Other Quick Build Services now available

Nicolas realized 3 years ago that he needed an agent and dealers eventually for more than just customs importation and sales.

He needed:

1. Builder Assist Program
2. A Registration Assist Program
3. A Phase one testing Program, arranging for the test pilot and use of a black box that will create the POH graphs on one flight per graph reducing the number of paid hour to the test pilot and cost to the customer.

We are please to announce that we are doing just that for our 1st Quick Build Customer and it been so much fun so far!!!

Just a heads up if you need or wish to expedite then it's NOW available through Aviomania!!!

 

[j bird]

Is the US customer incognito?

 

[All_In]

Yes Sir

Yes Sir

Is the US customer incognito?

He's afraid of you guys and this forum he think we are mean???
Shy but a heck of a great couple!! I enjoy them, he's a farmer and I think most farmers have more common since that most Americans! :usa2:

 

[PW_Plack]

Aviomania 51% Quick Build kit in 169 hours = We'll see?

Using Gary's time of about 300 hours he calculated to build his at about 70% of the build. That should interpolate to a savings in time of at least 81 hours!

John, this could be nit-picking but I don't think it is. You're perpetuating the misunderstanding that the percentage is related to build time. It is NOT!

For example, the FAA task list gives the same two points credit to fabricating and assembling the entire airframe as it does to fabricating and attaching engine compartment brackets. These two tasks obviously take dramatically different amounts of time, but they count equally on the list. The reason the Autogyro kits go together so fast is that the entire airframe comes pre-welded as one part in the kit.

It's commendable that Nicolas is thinking about quick-build, but if he left some of the specified tasks undone on the tail and shipped the entire airframe pre-assembled, that would cut build time in a major way.

There will always be customers who want to do more work on their builds, and 300-hour single-place gyro kits should remain available for them. But those customers probably represent 10% or less of the potential gyroplane market, and Autogyro has proven that real quick-build kits can bring premium prices.

 

[All_In]

John, this could be nit-picking but I don't think it is. You're perpetuating the misunderstanding that the percentage is related to build time. It is NOT!

For example, the FAA task list gives the same two points credit to fabricating and assembling the entire airframe as it does to fabricating and attaching engine compartment brackets. These two tasks obviously take dramatically different amounts of time, but they count equally on the list. The reason the Autogyro kits go together so fast is that the entire airframe comes pre-welded as one part in the kit.

It's commendable that Nicolas is thinking about quick-build, but if he left some of the specified tasks undone on the tail and shipped the entire airframe pre-assembled, that would cut build time in a major way.

There will always be customers who want to do more work on their builds, and 300-hour single-place gyro kits should remain available for them. But those customers probably represent 10% or less of the potential gyroplane market, and Autogyro has proven that real quick-build kits can bring premium prices.

Thank you Paul not nit picking at all.
I do not have the experience to know so this is very helpful. Gary gave me a clue in another thread https://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28289&page=33 about the time. I posted it here as the real voice of experience. All I can do is compare to actual when finished and post the results.

As far as the 51%. I believe Nicolas checked off 51% of the FAA list filling out the form and completing 51% of the tasks on paper, then he made the rest for the customer leaving 51%. The plans look like I still may have to cut and drill the tail to finish it and I have to make many parts by scratch but much less that doing 70 to 80 percent as Gary and Stan did.
I haven't seen his checklist yet but when we finish this build it should match his and be 51%. I'll let you know more as I get to the tail etc.

Believe me, all the time is in the "little stuff".... the frame goes together very quickly, and it will look like you have a gyroplane very quickly.

In my opinion.... the key to really having a "quick build" is to buy everything from the manufacturer in a pre-fitted solution. Engine, along with the proper wiring harness, and instruments etc. in a plug and play fashion is definitely the way to go!!

I'll say it again.... I'm extremely happy with my Genesis kit from Nicolas. I enjoyed the build process very much. For those who want to get in the air faster..... go the quick build kit route, but get it all at once. If you have the entire kit, including engine and pre-built wiring..... piece of cake to get the build time down to something similar to the MTO builds.

If you read this thread you see my numbers are a WSAG if you do not know that that means then read this thread https://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28289&page=33 post 490 & 491 for just how much I do not know about what it takes to build a G1sa.... But I will soon!

 

[gyromike]

Posts moved.

 

[All_In]

Posts moved.

Thank again Mike!!!

 

[hunt]

Thanks for the post, was looking for this information, well done guys!

 

[Resasi]

John what has happened to your original build?

Has any Genesis yet flown in the US?

 

[Steve_UK]

I understand the green kermit one flew once.

The message to flight hour ratio is unbalanced.

Do these meet the definition of a "Quick Build kit"?

 

[cfibob]

To John,
The FAA has a team that will officially review the kit. NKET - I believe it to be National Kit Evaluation Team. Get a kit for them to review. You will then be placed on the official list of 51% built kits. Of course they have to agree on at least 51%. Until that happens you will always have, sometimes, questionable judgements placed against your kit builders because there is no pre existing guidance for a DAR or FSDO inspector to follow other than the 'checklist'. It's not difficult but takes time. There is info on the web and of course your local MIDO can help. Time spent on building has nothing to do with it. Think task based.

 

[All_In]

Thanks for the post, was looking for this information, well done guys!

Thank you!

 

[All_In]

John what has happened to your original build?

Has any Genesis yet flown in the US?

Well you know Nicolas he's always improving.
He wants me to have the newest G1Sa-CE pod so I'm waiting for parts to replace my Pod, larger instrument panel, wind screen. Been waiting for RotorHead, Prerotator and fuel quadrant... I gave mind to other customers so the next ones are mine.

Two are flying one has flown so that's 3 that I know of.
Many of owners do not come on the Forum since it turned so negative.

Like I'm not sure if Gary has flown and he's flying now his it's been ready for over a year as far as I know.

Another one has been built only needed to be test flown and final adjustments made. Brian bought one but he when Fixed wing and I believe it's still in the crate.

 

[All_In]

I understand the green kermit one flew once.

The message to flight hour ratio is unbalanced.

Do these meet the definition of a "Quick Build kit"?

I guess it depends on who's definition or Quick Build?

Aviomania has two kits one requires over 70 percent to finish and you must paint it too. The Quick Build is painted an powercoated and only requires 51% has things like the HS and tail are assembled and painted many of the parts are machined for you only a few you have to make to comply with 51%.

So I think it meet Quick Build at least it's Aviomania's Quick Build option and it's an extra 2,000 Euros.

 

[All_In]

To John,
The FAA has a team that will officially review the kit. NKET - I believe it to be National Kit Evaluation Team. Get a kit for them to review. You will then be placed on the official list of 51% built kits. Of course they have to agree on at least 51%. Until that happens you will always have, sometimes, questionable judgements placed against your kit builders because there is no pre existing guidance for a DAR or FSDO inspector to follow other than the 'checklist'. It's not difficult but takes time. There is info on the web and of course your local MIDO can help. Time spent on building has nothing to do with it. Think task based.

This is something I wish to do with my build. Who do I contact exactly to move forward on this... Anyone know?

Thank you for the excellent advice!!!

 

[j bird]

You don't have to be on a official list to get a approval, I did the 51% evaluation paper work 0n my Dominator, which is not a kit, I came up with more then 51%, when the inspector from the Faa inspected my paper work during the airworthiness inspection he even came up with more percentage points for the build. At the time of my inspection the Dom was not on a FAA approved list. You can do the work-sheet yourself for the inspection, I did, no problem.

 

[All_In]

You don't have to be on a official list to get a approval, I did the 51% evaluation paper work 0n my Dominator, which is not a kit, I came up with more then 51%, when the inspector from the Faa inspected my paper work during the airworthiness inspection he even came up with more percentage points for the build. At the time of my inspection the Dom was not on a FAA approved list. You can do the work-sheet yourself for the inspection, I did, no problem.

Hi J!
I suspect it will be about the same process with an FAA inspector however will end up with both a registered aircraft and be listed as approved 51% kit.

I'm the logical choice to do that for Nicolas?

Thank you for the heads up!!

 

[TomBoodrick]

It is very talented. I wish you the best of success.
192.168.l.l