What could possibly go wrong?

Abid

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
For me it's about "best practice & safety" So I have to agree with @Philbennett - flexing those blades like double d's on baywatch could be detrimental later on in their life span. I don't even like the blades hanging down on their own while parked in the hanger!

The flex point / weak spot of the blade is right at the end of the hub bar, stressing the blade beyond its elasticity at that point could lead to premature failure, just like bending a piece if wire continuously till it breaks.

I don't want to test out the theory on my way down from 2000ft to my untimely death & cremation.

I don't understand what are double d's on baywatch? Can you explain what you mean? And how do they flex like gyroplane blades. Have you done any mathematical analysis for that?

WaspAir

Supreme Allied Gyro CFI
It is a reference to measuring how buxom an actress (hired for her figure, not her talent) might be, on a TV show with scantily clad female lifeguards on a beach.

Aerofoam

Active Member
It is a reference to measuring how buxom an actress (hired for her figure, not her talent) might be, on a TV show with scantily clad female lifeguards on a beach.

I think that may be sinusoidal movement....

Tyger

Super Member
What is the life expectancy of Magni rotor blades with low hours but 10 plus years in age? How does one compare an older Magni M16 (say 12 years) with low engine hours to a younger Magni with the same engine hours but only say 3 years old?
I have not heard that Magni blades are age limited, just time limited.

As far as an old Rotax engine with low hours, that is not generally a "good thing". A newer one with the same hours would be preferable. Keep in mind that Rotax requires that all the engine's rubber parts (as well as any mechanical fuel pump) be replaced every five years, which is not exactly a trivial task.

Tyger

Super Member
I don't understand what are double d's on baywatch? Can you explain what you mean? And how do they flex like gyroplane blades. Have you done any mathematical analysis for that?
I might have to do a regression analysis on those Baywatch double Ds... like me regressing to being a teenager

Greg Vos

Active Member
I don't know the answer to the life question but did you see the May edition of the LAA magazine ref the corrosion?
Phil any chance you can paste the details here? I’m not able to get the magazine and if it’s helpful and adds to saftey I’m sure many of us readers will appreciate

j4flyer

Member
I’ve seen many gyros taxi to the runway with blades fixed. Some taxiways were long and rough. So far I haven’t heard of any failures linked to doing that. Having said this I always wondered if the hubbar issue on early RAFs had anything related to long taxis. Barnett’s had an issue with cracking the original angle aluminum pitch adjustment brackets too.

Philbennett

Junior Member
Phil any chance you can paste the details here? I’m not able to get the magazine and if it’s helpful and adds to saftey I’m sure many of us readers will appreciate
Hello mate - magazine article above. Who knows how many hours the aircraft flies, the last time it flew or indeed the last time it had its permit to fly renewed.

However here is my impression of what goes wrong in the UK. Gyroplanes here are very niche. It means there are very few pilots, service agents, inspectors doing their thing with very few aircraft. Authority doesn't invest in this field of aviation because the numbers are low and because the UK CAA require each unit to make money it is unable to subsidise. That all combines to create a less than perfect environment because aircraft and their parts are low volume which dictates pricing. Few service agents mean they are not geographically convenient, nor cheap, nor widely available, nor challenged competition wise. Inspectors often are the servicing agent and with the low volume nature creating a "get along to get along" attitude very few people want to stick their neck out in case it gets chopped off.

What about flight safety? Well of course very many people are honourable and seek to do the right thing but then throw into the mix the fact they know Bloggs only flies 10 hours a year, its been like that for ages, I service the aircraft and everything else is fine, its a bit of paint flaking and nothing more, if I have to send the part away it will be months and we will miss the summer flying season OR half of the time most try and inspect the rotors and associated parts by standing on the seat [they don't invest in a tower or even a ladder]. Easy to see how it starts to go wrong.

Re the blade flex on rough ground. The problems with early Autogyro blades first occurred with an instructor who was flying quite "sportily" although he also operated off an entirely grass field. Then there was the German aircraft that crashed a few years ago which was also a rental aircraft operated off grass and of course the Cranfield university study which confirmed that stress from taxiing was often equal to a take off / landing.

Tyger

Super Member
Phil, would you mind posting that article again so we can see the full photos as well as the text?

From what I can see, that hub bar looks to be in pretty rough shape, and not just the spacers. If I noticed I had any paint missing from a component made of steel, especially a critical one, I'd be right up there with a can of RustOLeum, well before rust and flaking could begin. Basic maintenance.

The article starts off speaking about "new machines", but I'm willing to bet that one is nowhere near new. It would be useful to know how old it actually is, how it was stored, and when it last flew, but of course none of that info has been provided by the author...

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Burrengyro

Gold Supporter
Corrosion which is visible is one thing. Any thoughts on corrosion within the not easily inspected tubular sections of gyros using 4130 steel?
Wondering about the life expectancy of 4130 steel tubing in seaside environments and if there are any recommendations from manufacturers like Magni and experts on this forum re same? many thanks.

Tyger

Super Member
Thanks. That's pretty damned ugly, and that definitely did not happen overnight.
Makes you wonder what the rest of the gyro looks like, to include the hub block!

Abid

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
I have been stating that in recreational flying market the owners/operators are very maintenance averse. They do not do any preventative maintenance for rust proofing from time to time internally. I have seen this in trikes we made using 4130. It was one of the reasons for going with 304. This is dangerous and having a mast tube internally corroding/rusting in a gyroplane is even more concerning and reduces fatigue life tremendously.

Philbennett

Junior Member
This is dangerous and having a mast tube internally corroding/rusting in a gyroplane is even more concerning and reduces fatigue life tremendously.
What is even more worrying - to Brian's point earlier - is that this is being found in the UK where there does exist a fairly rigorous inspection regime along with pilot training that is mature and cautionary against rolling the dice with safety. In the meantime I hope you have been investigating DD's and beyond.

Gyro28866

David McCutchen
I don't understand what are double d's on baywatch? Can you explain what you mean? And how do they flex like gyroplane blades. Have you done any mathematical analysis for that?
Maybe he is referring to the Gravity of the situation
Newly constructed vs unsupported in the hanger for a while
(sorry for stealing this on Facebook)

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Smack

Re-member?
Yeah El Tigre, a little Rustoleum would fix her right up.

Abid

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
It is a reference to measuring how buxom an actress (hired for her figure, not her talent) might be, on a TV show with scantily clad female lifeguards on a beach.

Oh got it. BayWatch the TV series. Well I did have a customer and she flew trikes connected to that show (she is an identical twin of the lead actress on Bay Watch and an actress and author in her own right but she was not interested in any men) That was long time ago. The producer of the movie Frozen was also a customer and owned a Revo trike for a while. And to complete the diversity, Steve Morse the guitarist for Dixie Dreggs and later Deep Purple flew a LSA airplane we made and sold for many years. Lives right here in Ocala.

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Tyger

Super Member
Yeah El Tigre, a little Rustoleum would fix her right up.
Haha, it's WAY too late for that one! But a brand-new hub bar would not cost all that much.
The bigger question is, what does the rest of the ship look like? I bet the engine is a total mess, probably also the rotor-hub block, and who knows what else.

Abid

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
Haha, it's WAY too late for that one! But a brand-new hub bar would not cost all that much.
The bigger question is, what does the rest of the ship look like? I bet the engine is a total mess, probably also the rotor-hub block, and who knows what else.

Yup every aircraft requires some kind of preventative maintenance. The worst thing is people who do not fly their aircraft and just put it in storage without any storage precautions for the engine or components.

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