What could possibly go wrong?

Philbennett

Junior Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
660
Location
London
I recently recieved an email from AutoGyro that contained this link:-

AutoGyro chat

I focused upon the GyroMotion and looking at the picture of the Calidus driving around the highway and wonder just what work has been done to consider the stresses on those rotor blades and how it might affect their life...

AutoGyro-GyroMotion-Calidus_800x451-ID19670-f057af3573dcb57a171b81c16b3a52d2.jpg
 

Brent Drake

Gyroplane Instructor
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Messages
2,103
Location
Shelbyville, Indiana
Aircraft
Pipers/Cessna's/Magnus, Helo's/Gyro's
Total Flight Time
4,000+
I can see rotor-bearing failure in the future. due to vibration and chuckholes.
 

Andino

Active Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2022
Messages
239
Location
near London, U.K.
Aircraft
many FW airplanes + various autogyros
Total Flight Time
>1000 hours
Thank you, Phil, good point. In my opinion, the more dainty the rotor system, and the rougher the ground, the more religiously it should be taxied with some prerotation. AutoGyro is one of the last companies I'd look to for proper examples about gyroplanes. I find their engineering and their habits to be flippant, but with strong marketing and scaled up production they've generally so far gotten away with their flippancy.
 

Philbennett

Junior Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
660
Location
London
What will be interesting is how [if any] further airworthiness will be required or if you just buy some electric motors for the wheels, deal with the automotive licensing and crack on. If its the later I expect to see these things falling out of the sky with some frequency given the additional stress all that rotor flex / flap from driving on the road - in fact given the state of most UK roads it may even fail on the road journey!
 

Andino

Active Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2022
Messages
239
Location
near London, U.K.
Aircraft
many FW airplanes + various autogyros
Total Flight Time
>1000 hours
What will be interesting is how [if any] further airworthiness will be required or if you just buy some electric motors for the wheels, deal with the automotive licensing and crack on. If its the later I expect to see these things falling out of the sky with some frequency given the additional stress all that rotor flex / flap from driving on the road - in fact given the state of most UK roads it may even fail on the road journey!
To be sure. In typical AG fashion, any overstressed rotor system failures will be blamed on "extreme operations not authorized in the manual." That allegation was used when their original set of rotors began cracking.
 

Aerofoam

Active Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2020
Messages
292
Location
Az.
Aircraft
Pteradactyl, AC 447/503, too many UAVs
Total Flight Time
Over 3k....(From the ground !)
At least they have a cable supporting the blades from the top and are on a very nice road.
There is no way that would work for extended travel....
If you did that in Tucson, you would have to go back to get your wheels out of pot holes..
 

Andino

Active Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2022
Messages
239
Location
near London, U.K.
Aircraft
many FW airplanes + various autogyros
Total Flight Time
>1000 hours
why should they know their fate,
Since sorrow never comes too late,
And happiness too swiftly flies?
Thought would destroy their paradise.
. . . where ignorance is bliss,
'Tis folly to be wise.
 

Philbennett

Junior Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
660
Location
London
At least they have a cable supporting the blades from the top and are on a very nice road.
There is no way that would work for extended travel....
If you did that in Tucson, you would have to go back to get your wheels out of pot holes..
Sounds like Tucson and British roads are similar!
 

Tyger

Super Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2017
Messages
2,191
Location
Clermont, NY
Aircraft
Magni M16
Total Flight Time
475
I promise you the roads are a lot WIDER in Tuscon. So, likely more potholes per linear foot. 😉
 
Last edited:

loftus

Super Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2013
Messages
1,193
Location
Ponce Inlet, Florida
Aircraft
Aircam; Previously owned Autogyro MTO
Total Flight Time
800 hours
Possibly a little premature to condemn here just on this photo. Lots of photos out there of gyros taxiing to gas stations etc. Not sure why a road like in the picture is any better or worse than taxiing on any runway or taxiway. We've of course seen the videos of gyros driving around streets, again with the blade secured and good roads, no different to taxiing in the airport.
 

Philbennett

Junior Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
660
Location
London
Possibly a little premature to condemn here just on this photo. Lots of photos out there of gyros taxiing to gas stations etc. Not sure why a road like in the picture is any better or worse than taxiing on any runway or taxiway. We've of course seen the videos of gyros driving around streets, again with the blade secured and good roads, no different to taxiing in the airport.
Hey - not necessarily a condemnation more a question mark around what has or has not been considered because not only do we have [arguably] one of the worlds leading aeronautical universities [Cranfield] give a view on the contributory factors to AutoGyro blade cracking but we also have a several fatal AutoGyro accidents where blades may have failed along with air worthiness bulletins revising things that were apparently valid, but are not anymore.

What I am 100% sure of is that driving around the highway is not like taxiing in the airport. Even if we lived in the most well paved areas and choose to drive as slowly as we might when taxiing the increased distances / time spent in this phase surely needs to be accounted for.

Had the propulsion for the "driving" phase been done with the motor running /turned on you might well be able to make a case that the extra time is accounted for because the hobbs meter may well suffice, but the propulsion on the ground is via electric motor and independent of the flying elements.

Perhaps its all be considered and this is all nonsense but actually knowing the company and its focus I might like to see the POH/information that is highlighted to purchasers and what process is to be followed as this will stress the rotors much more.
 

Resasi

Gold Supporter
Joined
Jul 2, 2007
Messages
8,632
Location
London/ Kilifi Kenya
Aircraft
Gyrs, RAF 2000/Mgni/Bnsn/Hrnet/Mrlin/Crckt/MT-03/Lyzlle AV18-A/Prdtor. GT-VX1&2, Pax ArrowCopter
Total Flight Time
100+ gyro, 16,000+ other
Remember an ASRA Forum discussion about taxiing, and whether having a rotor turning and partially supporting itself with generated lift was better than taxiing with it parked, when runway conditions/smoothness were likely to generate concerns about adverse stress of hub/bearings/blade roots.

Without the specific knowledge to back it up, my personal opinion was having the rotor turning was the better option.
 

WaspAir

Supreme Allied Gyro CFI
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
5,686
Location
Colorado front range
Aircraft
Bell 47G-3B-1, A&S 18A, Phoebus C, SGS 1-26A, etc.
Total Flight Time
stopped caring at 1000
The McC J-2 manual strongly advises it.
 

Doug Riley

Platinum Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2004
Messages
6,763
It would be interesting to find out if the earlier Cierva models, which had flap hinges, kingpost with landing wires, and steel (not aluminum) spars, fared better in terms of fatigue from taxiing with blades stopped. The rotor head bearings still take a pounding, though.

As a grass-strip gyronaut, I always prespin my blades to whatever RRPM they'll achieve at engine-idle (or as fast as possible armstrong-style, if no prerotator). It's almost physically painful to watch them bowing and flexing if you taxi on grass with them stopped. I don't even like to do it on asphalt.
 

gyrojockey

Newbie
Joined
Apr 21, 2016
Messages
14
Location
Cape Town
For me it's about "best practice & safety" So I have to agree with @Philbennett - flexing those blades like double d's on baywatch could be detrimental later on in their life span. I don't even like the blades hanging down on their own while parked in the hanger!

The flex point / weak spot of the blade is right at the end of the hub bar, stressing the blade beyond its elasticity at that point could lead to premature failure, just like bending a piece if wire continuously till it breaks.

I don't want to test out the theory on my way down from 2000ft to my untimely death & cremation.
 

Burrengyro

Gold Supporter
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Messages
206
Location
Ireland
Aircraft
ELA07S, Magni M22
Total Flight Time
400
What is the life expectancy of Magni rotor blades with low hours but 10 plus years in age? How does one compare an older Magni M16 (say 12 years) with low engine hours to a younger Magni with the same engine hours but only say 3 years old?
 

Philbennett

Junior Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
660
Location
London
I don't know the answer to the life question but did you see the May edition of the LAA magazine ref the corrosion?
 

Burrengyro

Gold Supporter
Joined
Dec 15, 2020
Messages
206
Location
Ireland
Aircraft
ELA07S, Magni M22
Total Flight Time
400
I don't know the answer to the life question but did you see the May edition of the LAA magazine ref the corrosion?
Hi Phil, I did come across an interesting CAA produced document on corrosion: Corrosion and Inspection of General Aviation Aircraft CAP 1570, which makes an interesting read. I didn't see the LAA reference to corrosion. Any warnings we should know about concerning Magni, ELA of Autogyro products?
 
Top