Vortex M912 build

feedpro

Newbie
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
292
Location
Chadron, NE
Aircraft
Sonex homebuilt, Vortex M912
Total Flight Time
6700+ 96 hours gyro
CLS447,
The prerotor is belt driven off the prop shaft, through a flex shaft to a bendix at the ring gear. Sure adds weight to the control stick when it is just sitting there.
 

birdy

Newbie
Joined
Mar 19, 2004
Messages
7,052
Location
Alice Springs-central Oz.
Aircraft
open frame single seat & a 'wasa' RAF, among other types.
Total Flight Time
7000 odd, bout 5000 gyro
My feeling is, that it will not cool enough on hot days, but we will see.

Wots your yearly temp range where your are?
We usualy have a range of bout 40c from a cold winter morning to a mild summer day, but the extream min to max is 70c.
Wen its cold, i can have as much as 70% of the oil cooler duc taped just to get it to 80c, but summer its full open, and its plenty big enuf.
Water temps are better left as cool as possable [ for efficiancy] unless you have water warmed carb heaters, then you need 40c min.
Down side to such a big radiater is 1; weight, 2; drag, 3;dirty airflow to your prop, specialy wen its taped up. [ besides the fact it aint nessasary]

Make a trip to Oshkosh some year,
On me way, which way is it from ere?? ;)

I'll see that you have a stage
Im not the tightest wire in the fence, but last i heard theres a big puddle between you n me, and unless your stage has floatys and the horses are good swimers, it could be a problem.
 

feedpro

Newbie
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
292
Location
Chadron, NE
Aircraft
Sonex homebuilt, Vortex M912
Total Flight Time
6700+ 96 hours gyro
N432A is certified airworthy

N432A is certified airworthy

I received my certificate today. I hauled the Vortex M912 to Hot Springs, SD so the FAA could come down and inspect it. Removing the rotor is such a job that I may never do it again. Just too heavy to carry up a ladder.

I had previously gone to the FSDO in Rapid City, SD to go over the 51% form printed off the PRA site with the FAA inspectors. They agreed in writing that I had built 51% of the Vortex, so an appointment was set up after I returned from Oshkosh. I let them find a small problem. This made them happy and they were very nice to me all through the inspection. I demostrated pre-rotation and balancing on the mains, without taking off until they signed the forms. The FAA fellow who did the inspection on my Sonex was training a new guy and he told him that I knew what I was doing when building a aircraft. This helps them feel good about the issue of AW to a person with experience. I answered a lot of questions about the systems on the gyro and how they work, because they just did not know. I was pleased that they were willing to learn. No one threw their weight around.

I saw my next build at Oshkosh. I had a big crowd at my forum and 18 at my steak fry and lots of new friends. A very good week.

A good day, with the AW issued and also a repairman certificate. Now I have two repairman certificates. One for FW and one for gyro. Good days lie ahead.
 

CLS447

Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
6,320
Location
Reading, PA
Aircraft
Air Command 503 & Air Command SxS /EJ2.5
Total Flight Time
Aprox 400 gyro
Did they require prerotation & balancing for Airworthy ?

Was there a fee ?

So we can take our aircraft to(travel to ) the FAA & get free AW ? They won't do ours around here !

Your repairman certs are only for those particular aircraft, right ?

Congrats.....let's see it fly !!!!
 

feedpro

Newbie
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
292
Location
Chadron, NE
Aircraft
Sonex homebuilt, Vortex M912
Total Flight Time
6700+ 96 hours gyro
Did they require prerotation & balancing for Airworthy ?
Was there a fee ?
Yes they do require you to prove that everything works, so I did prerotate and they wanted to see the rotor tracked, but the sun was too bright. Remember, I am teaching them about these things.

There is not a fee since they are being paid with our tax dollars and it is part of what a FSDO does. I had to haul into South Dakota because of their budget restraints. Nebraska would have drove 450 miles to inspect, but only when they had other AB to do. Also, there should be no reason that your local FSDO would not do the inspections since it is part of their job. I would suggest that you personally go to their office (with an appointment) and discuss this with them.
 

CLS447

Platinum Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
6,320
Location
Reading, PA
Aircraft
Air Command 503 & Air Command SxS /EJ2.5
Total Flight Time
Aprox 400 gyro
Nope....they won't do it ! That is why we have to pay a DAR !

Tommy (Milton).....what do you think about this stuff ?

How about the repairman certs ?
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Joined
Oct 30, 2003
Messages
16,170
Location
Nipomo,California
Aircraft
Givens Predator
Total Flight Time
2400+ in rotorcraft
Positive FAA experience!

Positive FAA experience!

Two very nice gentlemen from the Van Nuys FSDO drove around 400 miles round trip to the Santa Maria Airport to inspect my engine change, AKA major change, and give me my limitations and defined the new phase one.

They shortened my phase one for no particular reason.

They spent most of the day studying every detail and reviewing my paperwork.

They examined many things that were not involved in the major change.

They were very helpful; one was their rotorcraft expert and quite knowledgeable.

I learned a lot.

One later helped me at the Thunder Over the Valley airshow at Santa Maria where the FAA had five representatives.

It doesn’t hurt to ask.

If it is an option; I will have Tom do the airworthiness inspection for Mariah Gale because he is an advocate for gyroplanes and will give me as much freedom as he can feel comfortable with.

The gentlemen from the FAA were by the book.

In my opinion they cut me some slack.

Karl is a very personable and knowledgeable man and I suspect the FAA treated him well.

I feel they are working to try to keep people safe and not have to fill out all the paperwork that is generated by an accident.

Thank you, Vance
 
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reelmule

Reelmule
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Messages
388
Location
Cave Creek, AZ
Aircraft
Beech Baron C55; Piper PA 18 Super Cub; RAF 2000 gyroplane
Total Flight Time
5,000+ hrs;
Karl, Congratulations on your 912 Build. I just returned from S/C at Scappoose where I hauled my M 912 for Jim to test fly. I wish I had your building skills and experience. I stronly urge you to take Jims flight instruction advanced course. After the first pushover to 90* nose down I was sure I was practicing dying--but Jim had everything under control. You learn the edge of the envelope and proper recovery technique. Great RV camp ground nearby. The M 12 Vortex certainly handles differently than my RAF. The entire staff very helpful and friendly. I would stronly urge any new builders of this model to stronly consider the factory assist build program--it will definitly be less expensive in the long run.
 

feedpro

Newbie
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
292
Location
Chadron, NE
Aircraft
Sonex homebuilt, Vortex M912
Total Flight Time
6700+ 96 hours gyro
CLS447,
My repairman certificates are for aircraft that I manufactured. Plus the model is listed also.
I would suggest that you send a letter to your local FSDO that covers your area and ask them to outline in writing what they do. Also ask that they state in writing why they do not do Air Worthiness inspections. You will find that they will do them (it is "what they do"), but be warned that they do not have to pass your aircraft, so a DAR is safer in that regard. You can do as I did, and visit with them in advance about your fullfilling the 51% rule.

Reelmule,
Jim Vanek is a great instructor, however they are 1100 miles (one way) from my place, so I will do additional instruction with the CFI in Spanish Fork, Utah, which is a lot closer. I will do this after I am flying a while then use him to polish up my technique.
I have good friends near by in Portland, who loaned me a Motor Home, which I parked at their hanger, which is the large hanger next to the camp ground. I was very comfortable the 10 days I was there taking lessons.
A factory assist build is good if you do not know how to start a nut on a bolt or how to torque to the correct inch pounds. The Sport Copter is only assembly, there is not any fabrication. The good side is the fact you don't have to wait for parts that were left out of the kit, when you build at Sport Copter. It would be a lot faster having answers to your questions right there. You would have your gyro flying in only a very few weeks. So, if money is not a factor, then I would build at the factory.
 

feedpro

Newbie
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
292
Location
Chadron, NE
Aircraft
Sonex homebuilt, Vortex M912
Total Flight Time
6700+ 96 hours gyro
Flying my Vortex M912

Flying my Vortex M912

The weather cooled last week, so I flew every morning for an hour. I flew again last evening just before dark and determined that evening may be the most comfortable time to fly. The deer are coming out and the air is smooth as glass. Seven and a half hours on the hour meter now.
I have put the Vortex down in all sorts of terrain, so am confident that it can handle anything, even a unplanned drop from 30 foot onto ground you would not drive a pickup on. Running the pre-rotator up to 250 rrpm got me off after a couple of bounces.
I did a demo flight at our flyin breakfast on saturday and received applause when I came back in to park. They liked the vertical descent because the breeze was blowing me backward, so then I dived out of that back to the grass runway for a no roll landing.
Gyro flying beats everything I have flown, but it is not good for cross country at 60 mph. My Sonex goes 150 mph, so I flew that to a flyin on Sunday. But the gyro beats every "bush" airplane I have owned, including a Helio Courier, simply because it lands in such a tiny space and does not need a lot of room to take off again. Usually, I had to look for at least 500 foot of smooth surface to land a fixed wing on, my gyro only needs 20 feet or less to land. So after over 2000 off airport landings with a STOL fixed wing, I have now found a flying vehicle that makes this a lot easier.
Every year I do a forum about landing off airport at Oshkosh, and now I can add a new dimention to this presentation.
This has got to be a sin. It's too much fun.
 

reelmule

Reelmule
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Messages
388
Location
Cave Creek, AZ
Aircraft
Beech Baron C55; Piper PA 18 Super Cub; RAF 2000 gyroplane
Total Flight Time
5,000+ hrs;
Karl, any details on the " unplanned drop from 30ft??" on departure did you advance the throttle with the prerotator engaged? Wish I had your off field experience.
Walt
 

feedpro

Newbie
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
292
Location
Chadron, NE
Aircraft
Sonex homebuilt, Vortex M912
Total Flight Time
6700+ 96 hours gyro
Karl, any details on the " unplanned drop from 30ft??" on departure did you advance the throttle with the prerotator engaged? Wish I had your off field experience.
Walt
Nope, haven't made that mistake as yet. I did it while doing turns around a point and kept at it too long without keeping track of the airspeed. Found out that I can't keep turning past 360 degrees, like I do in a fixed wing. The big thing is that in a fixed wing I do 720s, but with a little more altitude. I was doing tight 720s close to the ground with the gyro and all the back pressure dropped the airspeed faster then in a fixed wing. It was a nothing event in the Vortex, (a tough machine) except the next time I did turns around a point over smooth ground and stopped after 360 degrees.
 

reelmule

Reelmule
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Messages
388
Location
Cave Creek, AZ
Aircraft
Beech Baron C55; Piper PA 18 Super Cub; RAF 2000 gyroplane
Total Flight Time
5,000+ hrs;
Thanks for the comeback. Iv'e noticed in a tight bank and the necessary back pressure to hold altitude the AS drops fast if you don't get the power up. Will practice this one at 500ft!
 

feedpro

Newbie
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
292
Location
Chadron, NE
Aircraft
Sonex homebuilt, Vortex M912
Total Flight Time
6700+ 96 hours gyro
Flying my Vortex to Ranches

Flying my Vortex to Ranches

Yesterday 11/3/12 I was at the Quinn Ranch in South Dakota for dinner.

 
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