Vance Breese Mentone 2020

[NoWingsAttached]

I have NEVER, in the entire history of Rotaryforum EVER gotten involved in idiocy and hateful spite of reporting the woes of others, regardless of who they are or what happened.

I have commented on other's threads about sad events, but NEVER have i EVER said ANYTHING related to FAA, legality, etc. etc.

Enter Vance Breese.

Vance Breese went WA-A-A-A-Y over the top in 2016 when I rolled my gyro over on Pelican Island while taking off from the Savannah area tidal island - which Vance proclaimed all sorts of nasty things about in his hateful posts. He needled, derided, questioned choices, needled more, needled incessantly, and the subject of legalities was raised and waved like a flag.

Paybacks are a bitch, Vance. And bite me if you don't care for my tone or the content of this thread, ya'll.

The other day I received a fan letter from a fellow with this imbedded:


I do not know what tail number Vance was flying when he crashed Dennis' brand new gyro at Mentone 2020, but I can say that according to Vance's own confession on another thread on RF that Vance Breese did in fact crash someone else's brand new gyrocopter and cause "SUBSTANTIAL DAMAGE", which SHOULD be reported to the FAA, but I am quite sure that we can all be certain that it was NOT.

If the gyrocopter was not certificated, then Vance Breese should apparently be reported to the FAA for flying it.

Did the Vance Breese review the aircraft documents before flying it?

Did the Vance Breese - as the perfect pilot he claims to be who ALWAYS follows ALL of the rules to the letter - report the incident to the FAA?

Did anyone else?

Things that make ya go, "Hmmm."

If N196GT was not the aircraft that was damaged, then which one was?

Let's see some photos of the aircraft before and after Vance wrecked it while landing at Mentone last month.

 

[hillberg]

or maybe the FAA hasn't gotten to the file yet.
Even the Normal Certified stuff is having issues with Registrations lately.
But you can be an ass hole as the world turns, You have mental issues enough to be reported to the feds.
Things that make you go W.T.F.

Get over yourself

 

[Vance]

Order 8020.11D

This order prescribes Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) procedures and responsibilities for aircraft accident and incident notification, investigation, and reporting. I

Substantial Damage - Damage or failure which adversely affects the structural strength, performance, or flight characteristics of the aircraft, and which would normally require major repair or replacement of the affected component. Engine failure or damage limited to an engine if only one engine fails or is damaged, bent fairings or cowling, dented skin, small puncture holes in the skin or fabric, ground damage to rotor or propeller blades, and damage to landing gear, wheels, tires, flaps, engine accessories, brakes, or wingtips are not considered ‘‘substantial damage.”

A dent in the keel, a wrinkle in the vertical stabilizer and two propeller blades do not rise to substantial damage and does not require reporting to anyone.

Repeating the lie doesn’t make it so Greg. I did not ever report anything about anything you have ever done to the FAA.

 

[NoWingsAttached]

Vance Breese deserves whatever I dish out. He asked for it, he came looking for it, he brought it on all by his lonesome. If he can't handle it then he shouldn't have picked a fight with me in the first place. He did it because he felt comfortable doing so because of people like you Hillberg - people on this web dump who support him no matter how f'd up he is or what kind of tripe and garbage he posts 16gazillion times.

Earlier just this season, after my long absence from RFdump.com I posted flight testing results on here for the Godzilla, a 165HP Yamaha conversion I'd just finished. What was Vance Breese's response?

"What have you done to make it legal for test flights?"

You see this middle finger Hillberg? Now it's a fist, up yours, to the elbow. You can have what I'm dishin out for Vance if you like. I dont' care, one way or another, personally.

Got another email from the same fellow as before, he says this is definitely the aircraft Vance was flying and damaged at Mentone.

The N number is listed as "RESERVED" only, as of 8/17/2019.

Vance Breese was flying ILLEGALLY in an unregistered gyrocopter AT A PUBLIC FLY-IN and he couldn't even land it in light winds.

NO ONE should have been flying that gyro, let alone some one-eyed freak who thinks his poop don't stink and has significant depth perception issues due to having only one eye.

He owns and flies nothing but two-place, semi or fully-enclosed gyrocopters. When was the last time he put any significant time on a single-place, open frame gyro? Not recently, I can gaurantee you that. Vance even said so himself. Oops. There is huge difference in landing an open single than an enclosed or semi enclosed gyro such as his CLT Predaturd, or any Eurotub.

So what was he doing cyclops flying an aircraft that (1.) has never been inspected, certificated, papered, (2.) therefore hasn't been properly test and flown previously; (3.)belongs to someone else; (4.) at a public, nationally publicized and followed FLY-IN?

Never mind that Vance Breese has written and posted on here numerous times about what people should and should not do at fly-ins, "In [his] opinion". ONE of those things he has been lording over us all preachy-assed about is flying at a FLY-In EVENT any kind of TEST flights in UNKNOWN gyrocopters, or trying anything new at all which hasn't first been done at a private session.

Using that as his platform, high atop his ivory tower, Vance Breese robotically preached on RF that I should not have flown my gyro at 90 mph at Bensen Days. WTF?

WTF, Hillberg, do you even get it at all? Get your head outta your ass.

Who knows when the last time Vance Breese even flew an open frame gyro at all, let alone at an AIRSHOW in an ILLEGAL gyrocopter that belonged to SOMEONE ELSE which he ultimately damaged because he could not so much as stick a simple, straight-forward landing in normal, run-of-the-mill conditions.

Vance Breese trots out the FAA rules whenever it suits him, then flaunts the very rules he beats others over the head with.

That is an Asshole, hillberg, with a capital "A". Do you vant I should paint for you a picture?

 

[PJB]

You were there and I have to give you the respect that you should know but in a different thread it was a bent keel, which with the minimal nature of these things would seem pretty fundamental to it’s overall integrity, but if it’s none reportable then it’s none reportable.

Never the less it must highlight the factors that were being discussed only in the week prior namely differences training, accidents unreported and how things outside of the basic dynamics of the aircraft snag the unwary. Be lucky.

 

[NoWingsAttached]

Order 8020.11D

This order prescribes Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) procedures and responsibilities for aircraft accident and incident notification, investigation, and reporting. I

Substantial Damage - Damage or failure which adversely affects the structural strength, performance, or flight characteristics of the aircraft, and which would normally require major repair or replacement of the affected component. Engine failure or damage limited to an engine if only one engine fails or is damaged, bent fairings or cowling, dented skin, small puncture holes in the skin or fabric, ground damage to rotor or propeller blades, and damage to landing gear, wheels, tires, flaps, engine accessories, brakes, or wingtips are not considered ‘‘substantial damage.”

A dent in the keel, a wrinkle in the vertical stabilizer and two propeller blades do not rise to substantial damage and does not require reporting to anyone.

Repeating the lie doesn’t make it so Greg. I did not ever report anything about anything you have ever done to the FAA.

Why were you flying an illegal gyrocopter at the Annual PRA Convention at Mentone?

 

[NoWingsAttached]

The problem with this accident is that it happened at the PRA Convention - with only half a dozen gyros flying over the course of the entire event. Had it happened at a private gathering one afternoon at a local grass strip, who cares? But this is the PRA, this is Mentone, and Vance seems to think he can get away with anything he likes.

Vance seems to think that two broken prop blades and a bent keel are not substantial damage. He is wrong. The landing bent the main keel of the basic airframe into the propeller, meaning the integrity of the aircraft was compromised.

" Substantial Damage - Damage or failure which adversely affects the structural strength, performance, or flight characteristics of the aircraft, and which would normally require major repair or replacement of the affected component."

In this case, the keel was pushed into the prop, and that is what broke off two prop blades. The keel is what holds the tail in place, meaning this is most definitely substantial damage which requires replacement of the airframe basic structure - the tail keel. You can't fly this gyro after this accident by just pulling out a dent in the aluminum skin and replacing two prop blades.

The entire tail empennage was mounted on the frame member which must be replaced - a major component.

These kinds of situations are up to the discretion of the NTSB investigator.

More troubling is the legality of the gyrocopter, and why the pilot chose to fly an illegal aircraft at an airshow. That is all up to the pilot.

 

[PJB]

Fair point well made and yes on the damage I’m surprised a bent keel can be breezed over so easily.

I would be surprised if a vocal and therefore obvious personality fell into a trap and flew illegally at the biggest fly in for gyroplanes but then I was also surprised several years ago about another large personality taking a student pilot on an instructor course. Funny old world.

 

[hillberg]

Vance Breese deserves whatever I dish out. He asked for it, he came looking for it, he brought it on all by his lonesome. If he can't handle it then he shouldn't have picked a fight with me in the first place. He did it because he felt comfortable doing so because of people like you Hillberg - people on this web dump who support him no matter how f'd up he is or what kind of tripe and garbage he posts 16gazillion times.

Earlier just this season, after my long absence from RFdump.com I posted flight testing results on here for the Godzilla, a 165HP Yamaha conversion I'd just finished. What was Vance Breese's response?

"What have you done to make it legal for test flights?"

You see this middle finger Hillberg? Now it's a fist, up yours, to the elbow. You can have what I'm dishin out for Vance if you like. I dont' care, one way or another, personally.

Got another email from the same fellow as before, he says this is definitely the aircraft Vance was flying and damaged at Mentone.

The N number is listed as "RESERVED" only, as of 8/17/2019.

Vance Breese was flying ILLEGALLY in an unregistered gyrocopter AT A PUBLIC FLY-IN and he couldn't even land it in light winds.

NO ONE should have been flying that gyro, let alone some one-eyed freak who thinks his poop don't stink and has significant depth perception issues due to having only one eye.

He owns and flies nothing but two-place, semi or fully-enclosed gyrocopters. When was the last time he put any significant time on a single-place, open frame gyro? Not recently, I can gaurantee you that. Vance even said so himself. Oops. There is huge difference in landing an open single than an enclosed or semi enclosed gyro such as his CLT Predaturd, or any Eurotub.

So what was he doing cyclops flying an aircraft that (1.) has never been inspected, certificated, papered, (2.) therefore hasn't been properly test and flown previously; (3.)belongs to someone else; (4.) at a public, nationally publicized and followed FLY-IN?

Never mind that Vance Breese has written and posted on here numerous times about what people should and should not do at fly-ins, "In [his] opinion". ONE of those things he has been lording over us all preachy-assed about is flying at a FLY-In EVENT any kind of TEST flights in UNKNOWN gyrocopters, or trying anything new at all which hasn't first been done at a private session.

Using that as his platform, high atop his ivory tower, Vance Breese robotically preached on RF that I should not have flown my gyro at 90 mph at Bensen Days. WTF?

WTF, Hillberg, do you even get it at all? Get your head outta your ass.

Who knows when the last time Vance Breese even flew an open frame gyro at all, let alone at an AIRSHOW in an ILLEGAL gyrocopter that belonged to SOMEONE ELSE which he ultimately damaged because he could not so much as stick a simple, straight-forward landing in normal, run-of-the-mill conditions.

Vance Breese trots out the FAA rules whenever it suits him, then flaunts the very rules he beats others over the head with.

That is an Asshole, hillberg, with a capital "A". Do you vant I should paint for you a picture?

You are a mental case and Your bull shit rants show a mind on the brink of oblivion .
How's this picture, Vance shares his flights and enthusiasm for his hobby. So what he screwed the pooch, We all do at sometime.
His attitude speaks volumes. Your attitude is like you got caught at the neighborhood glory hole after someone crazy glued your peter.
You are just a deranged jealous little boy who lashes out at anyone who threatens that puissant ego you've got.
Get over yourself. So you put a car engine on a butt ugly gyro - So what how many fly?
If you want I can hook you up to some real dudes to satisfy your finger fetish.
One question, Did Vance know the machine as presented?
Seems you have issues with others too.
Maybe It's all about you'
Didn't your mommy love you too little or your uncle love you too much?

Try anger management.

I have about 100 of these delivered over 50+ flying very well, the other half going together nicely... You?

 

[PJB]

We might agree some of the tone is poor and speaking for myself, whilst I am delighted Vance is well and healthy post accident and I feel sorry for the owner of the broken aircraft there is some irony in this accident given recent postings (not to mention the multi thousand prior) that it is hardly surprising if there is some schadenfreude.

Yet beyond the personalities there is a more serious point, especially because it involves a flight instructor. I find it hard to believe that a bent keel - sufficiently bent to impact the prop - is not reportable (something the accident pilot himself posted earlier then seemed to “downgrade”).

Now we have questions about the entire legality of the flight and something it seems the accident pilot is unwilling to directly answer - surprising given the keen replies on most other matters.

Again speaking for myself it matters little beyond the fact our accident pilot does seem to have prior monopolistic claims to a moral high ground. Doing something wrong but thinking you were doing right is of course forgivable but doing wrong and then trying to evade is a little cheap IMO.

 

[GyrOZprey]

OMG ......someone PLEEEEASE "WOLVERINE" ...this maniac WINGLESS WANKER ...he's off the deep-end/off his meds,/orf'is brain with vitriol! ....you were NOT there at Mentone 2020 . You are JUST -stirring a personal vendetta ...making a mountain outta molehill !
A bit of bent metal ...between two friendly parties .....possibly revealing to the builder ...a design area that needs some beefing up!

I kinda remember another "hot-shot" flier at B-Days a few years ago doing an aggressive tail-wheel-drag landing ... that bent some keel & tail feathers!

Nothing new here ..... just a lot of self-righteous blowhards!

SHEEESH!

 

[mdalcant]

I think that the main purpose of the "Piloting technique/Accident discussions" component of this forum , should be to learn from the unfortunate mistakes of others. In other words, analysis of incidents/accidents, and discussions on how to avoid those same outcomes should be our only goal. I do not see how personal attacks help anybody. I do not know anything about what happened with this particular accident, but I would certainly like to learn something from it, because, lets face it, if it could happen to Vance, it may happen to any of us. Please could we discuss this event constructively? What really happened, and why? Thanks.

 

[GyrOZprey]

I think that the main purpose of the "Piloting technique/Accident discussions" component of this forum , should be to learn from the unfortunate mistakes of others. In other words, analysis of incidents/accidents, and discussions on how to avoid those same outcomes should be our only goal. I do not see how personal attacks help anybody. I do not know anything about what happened with this particular accident, but I would certainly like to learn something from it, because, lets face it, if it could happen to Vance, it may happen to any of us. Please could we discuss this event constructively? What really happened, and why? Thanks.

EXACTLY ..... the "naming & shaming" ....from WW & others who are just throwing gas at fires that WILL BLOW BACK & BURN ...THEM!!!!

Vance has explained what happened from his viewpoint!

"She flew beautifully with very little stick shake, good rudder authority and very maneuverable.

I did not spend enough time getting to know the aircraft, the panel, the sight picture and the unusual throttle on the ground.

I could not hear the radio once I was airborne so after a little air work restricted by a low ceiling I came back to land.

I was a little slow and flared a little high and touched down tail wheel first.

It was a hard enough landing to bend the keel and damage the prop.

I should have added power and had confusion managing the twist throttle.

There is no excuse for my carelessness.

Denis was very nice about it and initially refused to have me pay for the damage.

We eventually reached an agreement.

I tried to load a video of the mishap here but it would not load for me.

As a flight instructor part of what I do when demonstrating a maneuver is to explain what I am doing wrong and how I am mitigating it.

I don’t see this mishap as being any different other than the lack of success in mitigating the slow approach and high flare.

In my opinion the lessons that were reinforced by my mishap were:

Never hurry aviation.

Becoming familiar with the controls is time well spent.

Becoming familiar with the instruments is time well spent.

Overconfidence is my nemesis.

For me there is value in quiet contemplation for at least a half hour before flying a different aircraft.

I had spent the last three days training in a Sport Copter II and I was attuned to a tall enclosed gyroplane with heavy rotors and a spindle head.

It would be hard to imagine a more divergent gyroplane.

There is value in balancing on the mains and crow hops. I did neither in an effort to spend less time on the runway. I would have had to taxi back on the runway at Mentone as the grass was rough.

None of these are excuses; only an effort to share the lessons.

I felt terrible about damaging Denis’s kinetic art.

Seriously .....I think Vance has amply addressed his mis-adventure & shared the lesson! .... who of us pilots HAS NOT ...goofed up ( especially those who switch from the heavy tandems with floaty rotors & the light frisky singles with rapidly decaying rotor-energy!?????) ... bad luck to do so at an official event in front of a "crowd"!!!!

 

[PJB]

but I would certainly like to learn something from it, because, lets face it, if it could happen to Vance, it may happen to any of us. Please could we discuss this event constructively? What really happened, and why? Thanks.

I am in furious agreement to a point because just like the Chris Lord accident - it could not happen to any of us. Gash airmanship is just that and whilst some seem to think that is a comment simply rubbing salt in an unfortunate incident it seems from the information so far that someone has just jumped into the pilot seat without any familiarisation and in-necessarily bent a good aircraft. That is a lesson that had some push back when we talked about similar in the context of Cavalon just last week.

Now the magnitude of the accident is being obfuscated and the legality of the flight has been questioned and no answers.

They don’t need to answer to any of us but that raises eyebrows when it involves a guy who literally has opinion on everything previously.

So was the flight legal? Damage-wise people are getting called out for not being there... OK post some pictures.

 

[Resasi]

For someone who has allegedly...

NEVER, in the entire history of Rotaryforum EVER gotten involved in idiocy and hateful spite of reporting the woes of others, regardless of who they are or what happened.

they certainly have dived deep into it big-time.

As for sh*t stirring, they have succeeded admirably, this despite their acknowledgment that this sort of behaviour is, in their own words...'idiocy and hateful spite'.

But an examination of past posts from any individual is always instructive as to character. Should anyone care to do so for themselves it emerges and can be seen for what really lies behind the Avatar.

In a quiet moment try it and see for yourselves.

 

[DavePA11]

In my opinion, I think a good CFI In the US would be crazy to post on this forum given all the hostile posts or at least post anonymously.

 

[Smack]

Hmmmmmmmm, perhaps you've hit upon something there, Dave !

 

[Resasi]

Indubitably, given certain vindictive personalities lingering around like a persistent unfortunate inadvertent flatulent release.

 

[GyrOZprey]

Forum's ,Fakebook, (twitter-et-al!) ..... seems to me like ALL social media has become "TOXIC" .....the degradation in civility over the past decade ( since we started coming here and then in time participating in the newer SM platforms) IS RAMPANT!!!!

....the"in- person" restraints go out the window when at home alone , behind a keyboard!

I am not immune to the phenomena!

We ALL need to take a deep breath & re-read our postings and put it to the civility test ... Is it true, is it fair, is it helpful/informative! Is it "post-worthy" .... vindictive rants have no place on a site people come to be informed, learn, share issues and builds, ... be inspired!

 

[DavePA11]

Agree GyrOZprey, but obviously that isn’t happening so need a moderator to help out to get rid of the extreme stuff.

Been on the Supercub.org forum for many years and the moderator does a great job keeping it civil. No politics allowed at all which is fine with me.

We have weekly Zoom meetings covering some great aviation topics to pull everyone together during these tough times in place of some of our flyins.
Everyone is welcome to join and encourage people to check it out. That is only possible with active moderator for the forum.

There is also a private section of the forum for discussing topics that are not open for public review, and that would be helpful here too for some of these topics.