Vance and Kolibri Argument Thread

AirCommandPilot

Just a fledgeling
For the sake of every thread on the forum turning into a personal argument between Vance and Kolibri, I say let's give them their own thread. All back and forth between the two can be put on this thread so the other threads can remain on topic and relevant. Don't take it personally guys, it just seems that most of my time on here is sifting through personal preference arguments between you two.
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
As a gyroplane CFI frustrated with gyroplane accidents; I feel an obligation to correct misinformation about piloting gyroplanes.

It doesn't matter to me who posts it.

As someone who has flown both; in my experience your friends modified RAF is probably faster and more stable that a SparrowHawk.

If you don't want to read my opinions Bobby; simply put me on ignore.

It will save you a lot of time.
 

Kolibri

FW and Gyros
Bobby, you're apparently referring to the thread AR-1 N923DJ Texas 15-12-18.

Vance and I disagree significantly on the safer technique to land in turbulence.
I think the subject is worthy of in-depth discussion.
You're free not to read it.

On a more general note, Vance seems psychologically incapable of admitting when I am correct, or even when I've made a valid point along the way.
So, in my opinion, he more prolongs our exchanges than I do.
Even if my perception on that is inaccurate, what I try never to do is use any fallacious "straw man" argument against him.
I'd appreciate his reciprocity there.

Regards,
Kolibri


_________________
5 JAN 2019 NOTE: Due to forum posting glitches, please see my updated previous post at:


https://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/rotorcraft/piloting-technique-accident-discussions/1140908-ar-1-n923dj-texas-15-12-18?p=1141183#post1141183
 

AirCommandPilot

Just a fledgeling
Kolibri;n1141170 said:
Bobby, you're apparently referring to the thread AR-1 N923DJ Texas 15-12-18.

Vance and I disagree significantly on the safer technique to land in turbulence.
I think the subject is worthy of in-depth discussion.
You're free not to read it.

On a more general note, Vance seems psychologically incapable of admitting when I am correct, or even when I've made a valid point along the way.
So, in my opinion, he more prolongs our exchanges than I do.
Even if my perception on that is inaccurate, what I try never to do is use any fallacious "straw man" argument against him.
I'd appreciate his reciprocity there.

Regards,
Kolibri
I'm referring to almost every thread both of you post in. It always turns into a personal attack on each other. Yes I am free not to read it, but that would mean I might as well not read anything on the forum, as damn near every thread turns into this quibbling.
You two have your own thread now... argue all you want!
 

C. Beaty

Gold Supporter
But Bobby, until you read Vance’s profound statement; “In my opinion, water is wet,” you had no idea.
 

Kolibri

FW and Gyros
DavePA11;n1141191 said:
I think it’s good exchange of information. Thanks for all the posts!
Thanks DavePA11. I try to do my part.

________________

But Bobby, until you read Vance’s profound statement; “In my opinion, water is wet,” you had no idea.

Nice to know that I'm not the only one thinking that! :D

________________
NOTE: Due to continued forum glitches, my replies yesterday and today did not post in that thread,
so I included them in my previous post #71.

Regards,
Kolibri
 

thomasant

Member
For Chuck Beaty: Could you please comment/elucidate on the accident thread (which got this thread going) regarding the airflow reversal phenomenon described by Birdy and Doug that I had referenced. Thank you.
 

eddie

RAF, turbo subaru 230hp
Because of the hummingbird (kolibri) I have decided to leave this forum, I prefer not to be associated with him.

He single handedly has destroyed this forum and its purpose to share worthwhile information.
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
eddie;n1141334 said:
Because of the hummingbird (kolibri) I have decided to leave this forum, I prefer not to be associated with him.

He single handedly has destroyed this forum and its purpose to share worthwhile information.
Why give him the power to spoil our fun Eddie?

I have personally learned a lot I value from you Eddie and nothing I value from Kolibri.

I have allowed the interactions to annoy some of my friends on the Rotary Wing Forum because I feel flawed advice should not go unchallenged and wrong information should not go uncorrected.

I suspect my friends will forgive me for that because they know who I am.

The ones I worry about are the ones who imagine it is a debate.

Flying doesn't work that way and it could get someone hurt.

I love sharing the things I have learned and learning from others.

I learn things every time I fly a gyroplane and I get to fly a gyroplane more than most people.

I have learned a lot from my clients about things that people don't understand about gyroplanes.

That helps me to see Kolibri is weak on understanding how a gyroplane flies, understanding the wind and air speed.

I feel his aviation decision making and risk assessment appear to be based on drama.

I don't give him the power to annoy me.

In my opinion I can't teach him anything so my responses to his "questions" are for the people who might learn something.
 

mark treidel

Senior Member
Eddie,
I have to go w/Vance on this one. Until now, most here have 'tolerated' the verbal pissing match and as annoying as it has become, they remain silent.
No matter what forum you attend, there will always be a troll who argues for the sake of attention. I have to trust that most intelligent readers can figure that out rather quickly. Don't let that drive you away. Your input
here is valued and helpful. Like the Dr. advised the constipated man, 'this too shall pass'.....stick around.
 

mark treidel

Senior Member
Eddie,
I have to go w/Vance on this one. Until now, I have 'tolerated' the verbal pissing match and as annoying as it has become, I remained silent.
No matter what forum you attend, there will always be a troll who argues for the sake of attention. Don't let that drive you away. Your input
here is valued and helpful. Like the Dr. advised the constipated man, 'this too shall pass'.....
 

Kolibri

FW and Gyros
I don't argue for argument's sake. I don't care one whit for the "attention".
A "troll" would actually troll through many more threads to make antagonistic comments.

But when one CFI describes a risky and inadvisable landing technique in gusting/variable winds with ground rotors,
and another CFI is ignorant of the fact that ground effect actually produces additional lift . . . I have to speak up.

If some of you want a CFIs-are-always-right cult, then continue to castigate anybody who points out stubborn facts.

I certainly don't claim to always be right, but when I am it's intellectually honest for others to concede the matter.


_____
and nothing I value from Kolibri.
Vance, without my dogged posts finding my way to the truth on the matter, you'd still be believing/teaching that rotor drag is what prevents a high thrustline gyro from bunting over.

_____
eddie, it was never my intention to run you off this forum.
I think you will recall that when I am dealt with politely, I respond in kind.
I am now trying to respond politely regardless of how others treat me here.
Why don't you and I bury the hatchet, and start over afresh for 2019?

Regards,
Kolibri
 

Vance

Gyroplane CFI
Kolibri;n1141419 said:
I don't argue for argument's sake. I don't care one whit for the "attention".
A "troll" would actually troll through many more threads to make antagonistic comments.

But when one CFI describes a risky and inadvisable landing technique in gusting/variable winds with ground rotors,
and another CFI is ignorant of the fact that ground effect actually produces additional lift . . . I have to speak up.

If some of you want a CFIs-are-always-right cult, then continue to castigate anybody who points out stubborn facts.

I certainly don't claim to always be right, but when I am it's intellectually honest for others to concede the matter.

_____
Vance, without my dogged posts finding my way to the truth on the matter, you'd still be believing/teaching that rotor drag is what prevents a high thrustline gyro from bunting over.
____
Regards,
Kolibri
According to Wikipedia: In Internet slang, a troll is a person who starts quarrels or upsets people on the Internet to distract and sow discord by posting inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community (such as a newsgroup, forum, chat room, or blog) with the intent of provoking readers into displaying emotional responses and normalizing tangential discussion, whether for the troll's amusement or a specific gain.

I feel every part of Kolibri's last post fits the definition of an Internet troll very well.

Condemning a description of a landing because he doesn't understand it is typical of Kolibri's inflammatory and digressive, extraneous, or off-topic messages.

His fantasy that he has proved ground effect produces lift in a gyroplane rotor is typical of his lack of understanding of how a rotor works and how a gyroplane flies. In my opinion it is this misunderstanding that is a part of what has led to him recommend a dangerous landing scheme.

In my opinion Kolibri's promise to change when attached to such a post is simply unbelievable.
 
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