US LODA requirement to provide flight training to the owner in Experimental Aircraft owned by the owner gone

Abid

AR-1 gyro manufacturer
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4000+ 560 gyroplanes. Sport CFI Gyro and Trikes. Pilot Airplane
That burden is over. Instructors can again charge without getting that LODA (even though I have to say FAA made it quite easy to get via e-mail) if they train students in their experimental gyroplanes/aircraft. It is not considered "for compensation or hire" any longer

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The LODA language resides in Sec. 5325 of the James M. Inhofe National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2023. The section starts by clarifying that, in general, "An authorized flight instructor providing student instruction, flight instruction, or flight training shall not be deemed to be operating an aircraft carrying persons or property for compensation or hire."

It continues, "An individual acting as an authorized additional pilot during Phase I flight testing of aircraft holding an experimental airworthiness certificate, in accordance with section 21.191 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations…shall not be deemed to be operating an aircraft carrying persons or property for compensation or hire."

 
This also puts to rest the long-standing FAA interpretation that the ability to log instructional time is in itself a form of compensation for the instructor (an interpretation which was in effect long before the Warbirds case that brought on the most recent nonsense).

For clarity, if a CFI is providing an Experimental aircraft for student use, owned by the instructor, a LODA is still required for the commercial use of that aircraft, but a LODA is no longer required for instructing in the student's own experimental aircraft.
 
This also puts to rest the long-standing FAA interpretation that the ability to log instructional time is in itself a form of compensation for the instructor (an interpretation which was in effect long before the Warbirds case that brought on the most recent nonsense).

For clarity, if a CFI is providing an Experimental aircraft for student use, owned by the instructor, a LODA is still required for the commercial use of that aircraft, but a LODA is no longer required for instructing in the student's own experimental aircraft.
Thank you for stressing the difference in the LODA requirements... the "quick" LODA was misenterpreted as a replacement for the "regular" LODA even by FISDO personel...
 
Thank you for stressing the difference in the LODA requirements... the "quick" LODA was misenterpreted as a replacement for the "regular" LODA even by FISDO personel...
Your FSDO people need to drink some coffee. I recommend Colombian.
 
For clarity, if a CFI is providing an Experimental aircraft for student use, owned by the instructor, a LODA is still required for the commercial use of that aircraft, but a LODA is no longer required for instructing in the student's own experimental aircraft.

To be sure I understand this: a LODA is not required for dual instruction in the instructor's aircraft, but is still needed to allow the student to solo in the instructor's aircraft?
 
The way I read it the opposite of you my friend. The LODA is still required if the Instructor is using the aircraft he owns to provide instruction. I would guess this is because he is charging a combined fee for he and the aircraft? The way I read it also is if you as the student convince your CFI to train you in your own two place machine you no longer need a LODA for your aircraft.
 
The LODA "Letter of Deviated Authority" is a method to allow a person to do an item that is not allowed by the FAA.

A student pilot has never been required to have a LODA as they are receiving compensation.

An instructor does not require a LODA as they are allowed under the regulations to charge for flight instruction.

The LODA is required on most experimental registered aircraft as the operating limitations prevents them for being used for compensation or hire.

The primary category, experimental aircraft, do not require a LODA for flight training nor rental.

https://drs.faa.gov/search?modalOpened=true
 
I'll try again, perhaps more clearly this time.

LODA (first type), for commercial use of experimental aircraft. Commercial use of an Experimental aircraft is forbidden by the FARs, so a "deviation" from that rule requires specific authorization in the form of a Letter of Deviation Authority. Flying your own EAB is not a commercial operation, but renting one from your CFI is. If the CFI provides the aircraft for instruction, a LODA is required. This has been, is, and will be true.

LODA (second type, FAA rule interpretation), for instruction interpreted as one form of carrying a passenger (the student) for hire. Carrying persons or property for hire is forbidden in EAB aircraft by the FARs. A recent court decision, in a case brought by the FAA against a warbird company with limited, restricted, and experimental aircraft, said a CFI is carrying a passenger for hire whenever instructing. The FAA took the court's comment to mean that a LODA is necessary for any Instruction in any experimental aircraft, even if no fee is charged for the aircraft or for the instruction. Thousands of CFIs scrambled to get LODAs by email to satisfy the new requirement. Congress just said "hell no" to that whole idea, adopting the pilot community reasoning that a student is a required crew member for an instructional flight, not a passenger. This is now finally consistent with prior FAA rulings about medical certificates for CFIs, in that a 2nd class certificate is not necessary, because instructors are compensated for teaching, not for piloting. This type of LODA requirement is now dead, as the courts and the FAA must use the definition set out in the law by Congress.

I never needed any type of LODA for instructing in the A&S18A or McCulloch J-2 because they are not experimental.
 
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NOT ...."So EASY" ...before my Flight review I needed in August this year ...I applied by email ...never heard or got any signed form back - NADA ZIP NOTHING ... got no return paperwork or anything! ...Glad it is now irrelevant to have LODA for CFI instruction to me in my own machine!!!
(figured FAA is still so far behind with backlogs - a soon to be nullified LODA paper ...just got ignored!)
 
OK - I'm sorry, but I'm still confused.

I understand that an LODA is no longer required for a CFI instructing in his/her own experimental aircraft. It was never required for the learner's aircraft.

The one part I don't understand is, insurance notwithstanding, is it possible for a CFI to allow a learner to use the CFI's experimental aircraft to solo as required for the certification?
 
The one part I don't understand is, insurance notwithstanding, is it possible for a CFI to allow a learner to use the CFI's experimental aircraft to solo as required for the certification?
Yes a CFI can allow a student to solo in the CFIs experimental aircraft. The problem is a lot of CFIs may not allow a student to solo in the CFIs experimental aircraft.
 
OK - I'm sorry, but I'm still confused.

I understand that an LODA is no longer required for a CFI instructing in his/her own experimental aircraft. It was never required for the learner's aircraft.

The one part I don't understand is, insurance notwithstanding, is it possible for a CFI to allow a learner to use the CFI's experimental aircraft to solo as required for the certification?
It depends on what is in the LODA.

Mine specifically prohibits me soloing someone in my aircraft.

It is my understanding that some LODAs allow it.

Before someone tries to play lawyer the FAAs definition of compensation goes well beyond anything I feel it reasonable.

I was specifically not allowed to give instruction for free because bonding with a client was compensation.
 
I was specifically not allowed to give instruction for free because bonding with a client was compensation.
I think Congress has just sent a message to FAA about their silly definitions.

In any event, the FAA has never been able to explain to me how I report that sort of compensation to the IRS on my Form 1040.
 
I understand that an LODA is no longer required for a CFI instructing in his/her own experimental aircraft. It was never required for the learner's aircraft.

Not quite the case - a CFI's experimental aircraft still needs a LODA to train in it.

There was a panic where the FAA suddenly decided that your experimental aircraft needed a LODA for you to be trained in it.

That's gone away - I requested a LODA so I could do my BFR, and it took a few days. A friend did the same thing and it took a few hours.
 
OK - this is making more sense (as much as the FAA can ever make sense).
 
I was specifically not allowed to give instruction for free because bonding with a client was compensation.

Is this pertaining to teaching "Ladies of the Evening"??! 😋
 
I wanted to do some flying with a company test pilot before my LODA came through and they felt I was building a relationship with a customer AKA marketing and that had value aka compensation.

I did fly with him once my LODA came through earning significant compensation for training at a distant airport so there was some logic to the FAA's position.
 
Unrelated to instructing. What if I use my experimental aircraft for filming which might be used commercially?
 
Unrelated to instructing. What if I use my experimental aircraft for filming which might be used commercially?
Hi Jeff,

I think I would start with FAR 91.319. Your operating limitations should tell you what purpose the AWC was issued for.

Jim
 
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