Unproven machine, no prior gyro flight time = ???

GyroRon

Former Gyro know it all
Joined
Oct 29, 2003
Messages
16,916
Location
Fort Mill South Carolina
Aircraft
Vans RV4 / Dominator 582 Ultrawhite
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ALOT
To fly a unproven gyroplane, with major modifications that experienced gyro builders say is a big no no?

To fly this gyro without any prior gyroplane flight experience or dual instruction of any kind.?

Does this sound like a accident waiting to happen? Does this sound like solid aviation decision making?

See this thread and please comment if you have a momment https://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4116
 
Just looked at the pics.........

Just looked at the pics.........

OK, just commenting on the pics as I look at them:

First front right view: gear is canted out, why because too much weight on the gyobee shock system, looks like it is bottomed out and the wheel is sitting on a brick, if the wheels stays like that not only bad tire wear but axle failure and bearing failure will occur. Looks like a Brock cyclic but that plastic block does have to go, it may be strong but it will wear quickly and more than likely the holes will loosen and become sloppy or even fail. The sheet horizontal, eh maybe but the sheet rudders without stiffeners??? No way they will deform and eventually fail. I have a sheet of 1/8 al that has been just leaning against my wall in the shop for 6 months that has a bend in the center from its own weight. Rudder deflections will work harden the rudders and cause cracking and failure without stiffeners.

Second rear right view: Ok the engine mount in this view is bad, it may work for a while but it will definitely not work for long. The gyroscopic loads will crack and tear the rear support, there is nothing really there.

Third right engine view: That control rod has to go, I don't care how well the tube is welded or what is inside the tube, it will not stand up to the offcenter forces of the flight loads, it will bend over time if not fail. If he wont remake it the least he can do is put gussets in to spread the load so there is not point load at each corner. The only thing I see worthy is the lower forward engine mount, the rest of the mount wont hold up to use.

Fourth lower right side engine: Those belcranks have to go, too thin won't last to use of the rudder and the pushrods look awful thin too. Take that folded rubber our of the engine mount and buy a real lord mount. Good view of the rear engine brace to tube, won't last it will twist that little thing right off just from running the engine at high power settings, the movement of the engine from the gyroscopic loads in flight will tear it loose. It is not even held in any kind of alignment, one bolt thur each piece of angle and nothing to stop the rotation of the two metals but friction. That mount also looks like a little large instrument panel shock mount, maybe a bit thicker but definitely not thick enough to handle a VW.

Fifth gang plate for keels and mast: the hardware even if it is stainless will fail. I bet it is threaded all the way from the head to the nut, it will chew into the metals and the threads I guarantee were cut into it so it is significantly weaker than the shear stresses given for rod of the same size which i am sure that is where he is figuring from.

Sixth Cyclic control and instrument pod mount: ok first the pod mount is pop riveted on, that thing is so heavy and so much drag that the 4 pop rivets can possibly keep it secure after repeated flights they will pull thru or shear. The Nylon block has to go, bend a proper control stick.

If it flys I personally don't think it will last. Looking at the cheek plates...no way he did a hang test and it passed. I put a 503 on my bee and had to make different plates those definitely look wrong for a VW installation on a bee. Please don't take it personally but you need to have a few different experience gyro pilots and builders look over it, and please please please fix what they find wrong.

Oh, I just read your post Ron, yes it needs to be fixed before it becomes another statistic


Steve you are right also but hopefully if enough people are willing to help maybe he might rethink it and accept the help and hopefully get some instruction too.
 
I gotta go with Steven on this one; he knows your opinions and those of others on the forum; he's got to make the decision for himself.

Who knows; he might be one of the few that could pull it off, and his machine might not give him any problems. It doesn' t look too sound, but ya never know.

I think the lack of training is the scariest part.
 
chuter said:
I gotta go with Steven on this one; he knows your opinions and those of others on the forum; he's got to make the decision for himself.

Who knows; he might be one of the few that could pull it off, and his machine might not give him any problems. It doesn' t look too sound, but ya never know.

I think the lack of training is the scariest part.

The training part is the scarest part IMHO too. His responce was.... " who taught the first gyro pilot how to fly a gyro? " Great attitude!
 
I'm sure the first autogyro pilots had some fixed-wing experience.

A better analogy would be how many early 'would-be aviation pioneers' destoyed their creations, and/or killed themselves, teaching themselves to fly a machine that they taught themselves to build?

I am leaning towards Steven K's position.

Darwin Award Candidate.
 
Donald:

I, for one, am older than you...so, please heed my advice.

By GAWD...do not try to fly that contraption.

For all the reasons as previously stated...it is not airworthy. I doubt that it would survive a rough taxi. I would hazard a guess that those screws you have at the bottom of the mast would shear during a rough taxi.

I checked the records and found that you are not legal to fly...as your machine has not been issued a C of A.

Please listen to the recommendations made here and have an experienced gyro builder look it over and rework per his suggestions.

We all welcome you to the forum and want you to be around for a few years.



Cheers :)
 
skyguynca said:
First front right view: gear is canted out, why because too much weight on the gyobee shock system, looks like it is bottomed out and the wheel is sitting on a brick, if the wheels stays like that not only bad tire wear but axle failure and bearing failure will occur.
After examining the photos a bit closer, the axle struts are connected to the cluster plates BELOW the tailboom!!! This will cause severe flexing of the plates and failure... there's nothing preventing them from flexing that I can see... no tube there to press against. Since the axle struts are connected much lower than is called out in Ralph's documentation, there wasn't any need to bend the tubes since they were already pretty much level. So from where I sit, the only thing that bending the struts accomplished was splaying out the wheel tracking. Not a good thing. I can't imagine ground handling beeing worth a damn. Let's just hope the ground handling is enough to deter him from attempting a take-off.
 
N41770, got it. Thanks guys. If the builder decides he needs insurance, I highly recommend he contact my competitors at Aerospace. Nuf sed?
 
taking bets.

taking bets.

I bet we will not hear from him again. his personal profile is missing a bunch of stuff, maybe he might make the paper in his local home town under the obits. I am sorry but what a total jackass. to thick to realize how stupid he is and what he is about to do. He only came here to piss us off and look for approval. No one likes to take advice. It is a rare exception. Just ask me about mr funnel. I dont give any more advice. See how it pisses you off ron ? you know it will happen just a matter of when and how.

Jonathan
 
He is trying to sell that death machine to a newby in a welcome thread. He claims it is a gyrobee modified


LAWOLF
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Post Falls, ID 83854 USA
Posts: 8



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10kDA
Hello all, new member. My name is Chris Kinnaman, I live in Edgewood, New Mexico. I am the president of EAA Chapter 179 in Albuquerque. I have a FW project going at the moment, a cabin version of a Pober Jr. Ace, and a couple of things on the drawing board. Our chapter is also building an open Jr. Ace. I'm planning to build a Gyrobee.

Chris Kinnaman
EAA # 36270


I have just built just that but with some changes and if you like I can get you on the right start on where to get the best parts I think. I am thinking of selling my LAWOLF gyro design completly built except for mounting the upper gyro blade on the unit. This makes the builder a home built. The price I charge will be $20,000 less shipping and creating which I will not know until I shiop to the location. I will require 50% down and the balance upon shipping. This is a lot cheeper than most gyros today and with the double tail you can mount a cab on it and it doesn't block the rudder if the engine stops. My email is [email protected]
 
Holey Moley! You gots to be S%*&in' Me!
You can commit suicide alot cheaper than $20,000!

Sorry Some people just don't get it, do they!
 
Man, I didn't know Donald was contemplating selling these. I just caught wind half-way through the discussion. "Oh, here ya go, here's the keys to your nice new 1/5-ton Bee with substandard hardware and over-stressed airframe. Enjoy."

In Donald's defense, I admire his perseverance in building the thing. But it truly saddens me when a person of his obvious talent and longevity assumes he's right and the rest of the world is wrong, despite evidence to the contrary.

For one whom has professed being a pilot for decades, his current critical thinking skills will unfortunately be his demise. I hate to say that, but this forum exists for a number of reasons, including learning the craft, learning our aircraft, and saving lives. Donald appears to have his mind made up. Does anyone know who his family is?

Todd, you're nearby. Any chance you could chat with his wife and/or kin briefly? Just to let them know what their family member is contemplating? It wouldn’t need to be any long, involved thing... just that all the "experts" in the field he's undertaking have given their unanimous NO!, and he's ignored it.

By preventing a needless death, we're helping Donald, whether he realizes it now or not. Later he might have a nice flying machine as a result.

Perhaps I'm overstepping my boundaries here, but imagine if we could go back in time and warn a good friend of impending doom. Now's our chance.
 
Wow...

Ron, thanks for all the help you tried to give this gentleman. I'm not as mechanically educated as many of you, but from the advice you all give - how can he not take your thoughts into consideration?

I certainly hope and pray that he doesn't fly it - or sell it to anyone who doesn't have the proper knowledge about gyros or gyroplane piloting.
 
skyguynca said:
He is trying to sell that death machine to a newby in a welcome thread. He claims it is a gyrobee modified............
David, is there any way you can warn the 'newby' about the situation and direct the newby here?
 
Well I am hoping for the best and since he is a newby he is reading all the new posts but I have sent him a "nudge" in the right direction
 
David and all,
I know I've made several comments regarding this topic today. I sincerely hope my lack of "candy-coating" didn't reflect a lack of diplomacy. I suppose I could have chosen my wording a bit better, but the impact would have been lost.

I honestly don't want to discourage anyone from flying, and want only the best for them. Since we're all brothers in essence, can't I beat up on 'em as such? (joking of course). It's just that we've invested years learning what we know here, and have all lost dear friends as part of the investment. When disinformation shows up, I call it as I see it.

I'm sorry if I offended anyone or seemed rude.

Respectfully,
Brian Jackson
 
That's OK Brian

That's OK Brian

I thought Ron had written the last couple of posts before I looked at the name!
 
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