Ultra light combo

CARROT CUTTER

slight grey junior member
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Apr 15, 2008
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SANDY
Watching some paragliders and seeing the compact motor enclosure a idea started creeping up on me:What if the motor setup from a Paraglider(motorized)could be integrated into an extremly easy and light frame Gyro??

Like: Rudder and elevator build into the the rear propeller safety cage,the center beam of the rotorsetup split legged (around the propshaft)and together with the lower propcage carry a lightweight rear landing gear ,the seat and front extension with the pod and front wheel........

Thinking thinking ,easy, not cheap just less expensive ?????

Manfred:lol::lol:
 

GyroDoug

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Manfred,

The last thing I would ever want is to squash someone's dream so I am not going to tell you it can't be done. But I will tell you there is a lot more involved in developing a new machine than most people realize. Dreaming and coming up with new ideas is easy and fun and sometime even turns into something that revolutionizes an industry. However, it is a long ways from the dream to the drawing board to the prototype and finally to a marketable product.

Our segment of the sport aviation world is so small in numbers that there isn't much enticement for any "profit motivated" company to invest heavily in an idea to bring it to market. What that leaves is guys like you and me and if the dream is big enough and you are willing to invest years of your life and more money than you have to bring your idea to fruition, there is always the chance that it may work well and others may want to buy some and you could even make some money (if you are a smart businessman). But unless you already have the aeronautical engineering background and or years of experience in building and designing gyroplanes, you are first going to need to learn what you are doing. That will take years of studying and learning and some experience to learn what doesn't work well, then the process of developing a new product can begin.

If you don't already have that knowledge and experience, you would be much better served by sticking with a proven design that someone else has already developed and proven. There are several options available today to get into an already proven ultralight gyroplane. If you are interested in learning more about the Butterfly Ultralight, I am a Dealer and would be happy to talk to you about what we have available. If you are interested in learning more about rotorcraft in general join the PRA chapter in your area. (website is "utahrotorcraft.org") There already is a way for you to get into the air if you really want to do it. Just start learning about what is already available and talking to people that are already doing it and you will find a way that will work for you. Best of luck!!!

Doug Barker
 

Heron

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After many years of trying and discarding designs, it seems that, the better config a gyro can have is the so called Dominator shape, the steped keel.
Measures will be determined by power plant size (engine and Prop) that will be determined by AUW desired that will . . . . .like a domino . . .
Heron
 

Miranda

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Minimum Kw/Thrust Requirements

Minimum Kw/Thrust Requirements

Manfred,

I have been spending some time researching the same idea lately. The main sticking point I am running into is determining the minimum thrust necessary to power an ultralight gyro in flight. The Radne Raket 120 Aero with a reduction gear weighs about 20 lbs, puts out 14 HP in its stock configuration, and delivers 130 lbs of thrust. While that may be sufficient for flex-wings (which use the Mosquito harness/pod for self launching) and PPGs, I have a hunch it may be marginal for a gyrocopter - even after considering the weight savings over larger, heavier engines.

I have been looking for some data on minimum required thrust for gyros but have not found much out there. Even if I were add a second Radne Raket propulsion system to compensate for the fact that a rotary wing aircraft is typically only 50-percent as efficient as its fixed-wing counterpart, I don't know if I would be flying too close to the margins for my own comfort.

I am a former military helicopter pilot, and I have some engineering background, but I still have not located enough good data to support making a reasonable scientific wild-assed guess on the matter. I do agree with your impulse to keep things simpler and lighter, though. Unfortunately, simple is often the hardest thing to do.

Miranda
 

Jazzenjohn

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I've designed, built, and flown 4 different ultralight gyros. Amassing parts for a 2 place now.
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The engine thought of as the minimum for a typical gyro is the Rotax 447 and they get about 260 pounds of thrust.
 

Alan_Cheatham

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One thing to note here is that gyroplanes need horizontal and vertical tail surfaces mounted on a lever arm, paragliders don't, so there is a minimum length the gyro must be.

Second, the rotor mast must be a certain minimum hight to provide for rotor clearance.

Third, the landing gear must be a certain minimum width in order to give enough ground stability to the heavy rotor overhead.

So, your only going to be able to make a gyro a certain minimum size cause they have different design requirements than a paraglider.

.
 

Alan_Cheatham

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This is about the smallest gyro I've seen but that doesn't mean it was a successful design.

.
 

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jany77

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ul

ul

the radne raket is nice small engine but let me tell you somethink about it, my friend was flying this engine on nanotrike for 50 hours and trying at least 6 different propellers and different tunned exhaust the most of thrust he was able to get was 97 lbs with 49x17 pitch and original radne exhaust ,so if someone say 130 lbs that must be either high or dreaming,if you want real thrut go with simonini 3 and you get close to 200 lbs frome engine which weight close to 40 lbs ,radne ready to go without prop is 22,5lbs
 

Lspav8r

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Nothing at this time, but I think the daughter and I are gonna get us a 2 place helicopter.
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Small markets

Small markets

Manfred,

The last thing I would ever want is to squash someone's dream so I am not going to tell you it can't be done. But I will tell you there is a lot more involved in developing a new machine than most people realize. Dreaming and coming up with new ideas is easy and fun and sometime even turns into something that revolutionizes an industry. However, it is a long ways from the dream to the drawing board to the prototype and finally to a marketable product.

Our segment of the sport aviation world is so small in numbers that there isn't much enticement for any "profit motivated" company to invest heavily in an idea to bring it to market. What that leaves is guys like you and me and if the dream is big enough and you are willing to invest years of your life and more money than you have to bring your idea to fruition, there is always the chance that it may work well and others may want to buy some and you could even make some money (if you are a smart businessman). But unless you already have the aeronautical engineering background and or years of experience in building and designing gyroplanes, you are first going to need to learn what you are doing. That will take years of studying and learning and some experience to learn what doesn't work well, then the process of developing a new product can begin.

If you don't already have that knowledge and experience, you would be much better served by sticking with a proven design that someone else has already developed and proven. There are several options available today to get into an already proven ultralight gyroplane. If you are interested in learning more about the Butterfly Ultralight, I am a Dealer and would be happy to talk to you about what we have available. If you are interested in learning more about rotorcraft in general join the PRA chapter in your area. (website is "utahrotorcraft.org") There already is a way for you to get into the air if you really want to do it. Just start learning about what is already available and talking to people that are already doing it and you will find a way that will work for you. Best of luck!!!

Doug Barker

My boss at Harley Davidson told me once that the motorcycle market is one (1) percent of all motor vehicle markets.

Now we are talking about something so widespread as Harley and all the others, and this is only one percent of the market? I wonder what gyros are in percentages if this is true.
 

GyroDoug

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I wonder what gyros are in percentages if this is true.

"Infinitesimally small and statistically insignificant."

Unless we are able to grow the market and bring new people in, the sport is doomed to continue to shrink until there is not any support at all and the only people who will be flying are the ones who are totally self sufficient and able to do it all themselves. And as time goes on and those people die off there won't be anyone left. That may sound negative but I believe it is simply looking at what has been happening and projecting that trend forward.

The good news is there are some exciting new developments on the horizon and there a many people who are very committed to growing our sport. (just not enough) We could sure use some more help and if all of us could catch that spirit the work would go much faster. I can see things starting to turn in the right direction now we just need to pick up speed. Go PRA!!!!
 

Jens

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the radne raket is nice small engine…….
….the most of thrust he was able to get was 97 lbs
….if someone say 130 lbs that must be either high or dreaming
….radne ready to go without prop is 22,5lbs
I agree with above statements as I use a Radne 120 on my new PPG and we have tuned it, but it is still marginal power/thrust for PPG with my body weight of 85kg/190lb.
To go full throttle on this engine to get 18hp is not recommendable – I think.

Just grab a paramotor and bolt it on a gyro frame sounds as an easy way to go, but I don’t think even the popular Simoni 3 can do the job.
If one likes the added safety of 2 engines it might be a good idea – but 2 engines is not really simple.

Juka Tervamaki has modelled a nice little gyro with a wankel engine.
Remove the front hood – (and add an overhead stick) = very small, simple and nice gyro.
 

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BobK

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in my design dreams
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Ok the market is very small, maybe because the design of the product is at least 50years old. While new proven designs are few, it may take only one big hit to start people flying that have been stuck in cars & traffic. This has to be very very light as in under 100 pounds. It needs to be VTOL and cheap to power like electric & pedals. Maybe this giro doesn't even need frame or mast creating drag.
 
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