TwinstarrAviators.com Updated

barnstorm2

Platinum Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
14,572
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
Aircraft
2-place Air Command CLT SxS (project), & Twinstarr Autogyro
Total Flight Time
750+hrs and climbing
Some significant updates have been made to the Twinstarr web page.

:welcome:

Including but not limited to:

The assembly manual is now online.
Photo build logs for Kit 19, 21 and rebuild of 15.


If you have any interest in scratch building a Twinstarr from Plans please contact me ASAP. Or if you would like to help invest in bringing the original Jigs back to the USA also please contact me ASAP.

Thanks!!!

http://www.twinstarraviators.com/
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barnstorm2

Platinum Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
14,572
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
Aircraft
2-place Air Command CLT SxS (project), & Twinstarr Autogyro
Total Flight Time
750+hrs and climbing
Is the Twinstarr CLT or near CLT ?
That is a good question.

I have been working on that question myself.

There are methods for calculating thrust line but I don't have the ability to hang my gyro (required for the calculations). There is a way to calculate thrust line without hanging but you need to be able to support the blades so they are near their 'coneing' angle which I also don't have the ability to do right now.

If you draw a mental line from the prop center through the passenger and pilot it is about 4 inches from belly button. This method has no proven accuracy but gives a general idea for some gyros. Using the belly-button method it is NCLT.

I do know that the Twinstarr is very stable and forgiving. It has a horizontal stabilizer and responds well to Greg Gremmingers basic stability test. They are stable enough to be considered a good trainer by many.

The small body and tandem seating also seem to help pitch stability.





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karlbamforth

Newbie
Joined
Nov 2, 2005
Messages
1,336
Location
Langkawi, Malaysia
Aircraft
Fixed wing/ rotary
Total Flight Time
500+
Thanks I agree that the twinstarr looks right compared to others.

You may not be able to hang test your gyro but does anyone have any side views of a Twinstarr flying straight and level ?
Again not accurate but we should be able to see how the body sits in relation to the blades and the prop thrust line.
 

barnstorm2

Platinum Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
14,572
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
Aircraft
2-place Air Command CLT SxS (project), & Twinstarr Autogyro
Total Flight Time
750+hrs and climbing
Thanks I agree that the twinstarr looks right compared to others.

You may not be able to hang test your gyro but does anyone have any side views of a Twinstarr flying straight and level ?
Again not accurate but we should be able to see how the body sits in relation to the blades and the prop thrust line.
Hey, that is a good idea.

I want searching through my pictures and found I don't have very many level shots with two people on board.

This is the best I could find on short notice.

I want to stress that I have been told the only way to truely know the thrustline offset is by a hang test method so lets just call this "thust line musings" so no one gets mad at me for portraying something potentially incorrect.

Because of the rudders you can not see the prop looking at a side view of the Twinstarr. If you look at a picture of the prop hub it appears that the center of the prop hub lines up just under and with the bottom half of the valve covers.

Looking at the valve covers and lineing them up with the passingers in the seats the line appears to cut through a few inches above belly-button hight on the rear seat and an inch or two higher on the front seat.

I think this photo seems somewhat optomistic because of the angle the photo was taken from and the angle of the engine.

This was a fun exercise, thanks for the idea.
 

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barnstorm2

Platinum Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
14,572
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
Aircraft
2-place Air Command CLT SxS (project), & Twinstarr Autogyro
Total Flight Time
750+hrs and climbing
More PRETEND thrustlines

More PRETEND thrustlines

I fooled around with some other HTL machine pictures.

The RAF is of couse crazy high thrustline with a body and SxS.

The Magni looks about the same as the Twinstarr but they do have the advantage of a stab very far back. Magni's are renoun for stablity I would like to point out.

The Twinstarr's hstabs are very large but the are not far back from the CG like the Magni.


Again...

Disclaimer: These photos are from odd angles and true thrustlines and pitch stablity can not be assertained from a photo...
 

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Last edited:

Brent Drake

Gyroplane Instructor
Joined
Jun 15, 2004
Messages
2,053
Location
Shelbyville, Indiana
Aircraft
Pipers/Cessna's/gyro's
Total Flight Time
3,000+
I have also done some of Greg's spec's on a safe gyro. I did not do his entire list but the ones I did do worked out like it should have. I'm not sure if it's CLT but it has to be close. The next time I go to Greencastle, I'll hang it and put the results on here.
 

barnstorm2

Platinum Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
14,572
Location
Cincinnati, Ohio
Aircraft
2-place Air Command CLT SxS (project), & Twinstarr Autogyro
Total Flight Time
750+hrs and climbing
I have also done some of Greg's spec's on a safe gyro. I did not do his entire list but the ones I did do worked out like it should have. I'm not sure if it's CLT but it has to be close. The next time I go to Greencastle, I'll hang it and put the results on here.
I am certain that she is not CLT but it would be nice to have the numbers so I can see if I can use the 'fuzzy' term NCLT.

I tried to use the excel spread sheet bathroom scale method but that method is really only usefull for a single place machine. To be near accurate you have to put the blades in a cone stance and I just can't do that where I am at. On a single place it might not make much of a difference but on my Twinstarr I can hardly hold the blades for more then a few moments they are so heavy and they are 30ft long! On my single place I could heft the blades on my sholder and walk up a ladder and put them on by myself.

I am comforted by the Gremminger pitch stability results but I aways keep in mind that the machine I am flying is HTL and I am ready and well trained to react and fly the machine as such.

Well the temps are in the high 40F's now and it is partly sunny.

I failed at trying to dye my seat covers (arrgh) so I guess I am going to suit up and go fly for a spell....
 
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