gyrojake
Gyro Rehab Candidate
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2007
- Messages
- 2,312
- Location
- E-City, Florida
- Aircraft
- Gyroplanes
- Total Flight Time
- A few hours
Too bad you don't live closer
Twinstarr - N298RW - North Carolina
- Thread starter Steve_UK
- Start date
GyroRon
Former Gyro know it all
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2003
- Messages
- 16,852
- Location
- Fort Mill South Carolina
- Aircraft
- Vans RV4 / Dominator 582 Ultrawhite
- Total Flight Time
- ALOT
your not that far away Jake. If your up for looking at it, perhaps we can talk about fixing it.
GyroRon
Former Gyro know it all
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2003
- Messages
- 16,852
- Location
- Fort Mill South Carolina
- Aircraft
- Vans RV4 / Dominator 582 Ultrawhite
- Total Flight Time
- ALOT
And for whats its worth, I found the reason it lost power.
I can post more of a detailed synopsis of what I did tonight in the hangar to trouble shoot it, maybe tomorrow ( Im tired and making dinner and want to go watch stranger things with my kid ) but long story short, I found a slug of red RTV silicone gunk in the inlet of the fuel filter. I am surprised it flowed any fuel at all as wedged up in the filter the RTV was, but clearly it wasn't able to flow the 10-16 GPH a Lycoming 320 pulls at WOT.
My wife is very triggered about this whole situation and already was not very comfortable with my " Dangerous " flying hobby. Now she wants to know how could I know if RTV would be in any aircraft fuel system, and how could I insure this wouldn't happen to other planes or gyros I fly....
I can post more of a detailed synopsis of what I did tonight in the hangar to trouble shoot it, maybe tomorrow ( Im tired and making dinner and want to go watch stranger things with my kid ) but long story short, I found a slug of red RTV silicone gunk in the inlet of the fuel filter. I am surprised it flowed any fuel at all as wedged up in the filter the RTV was, but clearly it wasn't able to flow the 10-16 GPH a Lycoming 320 pulls at WOT.
My wife is very triggered about this whole situation and already was not very comfortable with my " Dangerous " flying hobby. Now she wants to know how could I know if RTV would be in any aircraft fuel system, and how could I insure this wouldn't happen to other planes or gyros I fly....
Sv.grainne
Super Member
Wow, thanks for posting that. You think it was used on a fitting or found its way into the fuel system in some other manner. Glad you're ok.
Capt'n Gator
Junior Member
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2012
- Messages
- 624
- Location
- Goldsboro, NC
- Aircraft
- Dominator Single 582BH N401JC
- Total Flight Time
- 200+
Just glad you are OK, any damage to the power lines that you may have to cover?
GyroRon
Former Gyro know it all
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2003
- Messages
- 16,852
- Location
- Fort Mill South Carolina
- Aircraft
- Vans RV4 / Dominator 582 Ultrawhite
- Total Flight Time
- ALOT
GyroRon
Former Gyro know it all
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2003
- Messages
- 16,852
- Location
- Fort Mill South Carolina
- Aircraft
- Vans RV4 / Dominator 582 Ultrawhite
- Total Flight Time
- ALOT
Just to set the record straight on a few things...
First off, this is not MY gyro. I advised a friend of mine who wants to get into gyros to buy this. He bought it and I was attempting to test fly it. It was delivered to my hangar just last Thursday.
The gyro was ground run before I tried to fly it, but not tied up to a tractor or whatever and run at wide open throttle. It was mostly just taxi tested at relatively low RPM, and run at 2200-2300 rpm for a short time while checking the strength of the brakes and doing a mag and carb heat check. The engine ran great throughout all of that.
The first flight attempt, was the one that lead to this " incident"...
I taxied the gyro to the end of runway 22, which was the preferred runway due to a very slight wind.
( in retrospect there was little to no other aircraft flying that afternoon and the wind was light enough I could have used runway 4. off the end of 4 there is a large open golf course, where as off the end of runway 22 there is woods and more woods.... you need to have some altitude off runway 22 to be able to either turn left or right and either glide to a field or to the runway, runway 4 is certainly the better runway to takeoff from and have a engine out during climb out. I will never takeoff runway 22 with a unknown unproven machine again! )
I prerotated the rotors to 110 rrpm or so and released the brakes and kept pre rotator engaged. I let off the pre rotator by 150 rpms or so and just slowly built speed in the rotor. Gyro eventually rocked back, and I lowered the nose and advanced the throttle even more and focused on trying to keep the nose wheel balanced just off the ground. From this point onwards I didn't look at the instrument panel at all....
As I kept increasing speed and throttle, eventually the gyro took off. I used roughly 1500 feet to become airborne. Was NOT rushing the takeoff because it was my first time flying a twinstar and I wanted a easy conservative takeoff with no surprises. I am sure that I could have been much more aggressive with the throttle, and likely got the gyro in the air in half the distance I took, but I wanted to be conservative on this first takeoff.
As soon as the gyro became airborne I was at full throttle and I kept the nose low for a few seconds to build airspeed then went nose up slightly to climb out. I was climbing out fairly well by the time I passed the end of the runway, then crossed the road at the end of the airport. I wasn't more than 200 -300 feet past the road off the end of the runway when the engine just suddenly lost all power.
I had very little altitude, I would estimate only 200 feet max. And very little time to do much of anything. Feel free to goggle earth view " goose creek airport, 28A " and see what it looks like where I was. If I had tried to land forward, I would have been in tall trees. I was too low to turn left or right and glide to a clearing in a neighboring property. I felt like my only choice was to turn back to the runway.
I almost had it too... There was power lines running from poles at the road, towards the house that is directly across the street from the airport. I was hoping I could clear them, and if I had, I would have made it back to the airport... But I was simply too low, I clipped the top wire ( which was the power wire ) with the left main landing gear leg, and that nearly stopped the gyro... turned the gyro 90 degrees to the left and 90 degrees sideways and slammed it down to the ground under the wires onto its side. In the process the power line broke, along with the cable internet wire under it.
I crawled out of the gyro relatively fine. My shoulder was hurting, It hit the ground hard when the gyro hit the ground, but otherwise I was fine.
Few other pilots from the airport that were there to help me assemble the rotors and watch this flight had already got in their cars and rushed from my hangar down to the road to see what happened and if I was ok. I didn't even bother to look at the gyro... I was feeling blessed and just wanted to go back to my hangar and drink some water and have a cigarette to calm my nerves. One of the guys walked over to the gyro to make sure it was safe to leave there, and he noted that the master switch was on, the fuel pump and alternator switches were on, the mags were set to both, the mixture was set at full rich, carb heat off, and throttle was still wide open. He shut off the master switch and noted fuel was leaking out of the gas cap which is on the right side of the machine, which is the side that was on the ground.
We all went back to my hangar and I relaxed in a chair for about 15 minutes, then we were trying to figure out how we would retrieve the gyro. We got permission to use the airports skidsteer and we got some straps to use and decided to head to the gyro to get it picked up. As we approached the far end of runway 22, we could see fire trucks and emergency response vehicles, police etc.... Even the power company truck was already there!
I had to talk to the paramedics, the fire dept, the county sheriff people, then the highway patrol. Also had to talk to a FAA person on the phone. Told them I wanted to get this gyro picked up and put back in my hangar so I could go home and finally got permission to do that around 6pm. The gyro " crashed " around 330 pm for reference.
The rotor was super bent up, the mast has some damage, but otherwise the gyro held up amazingly well. We ended up doing more damage getting it righted and out of this ditch with the bobcat, we removed both tail halves, and hacksawed the rotor off so we could get it out.
We finally got it out of the ditch and trees / brush it was in and onto smooth ground and towed it on its gear back to my hangar. We put it in my hangar and closed the doors and everyone left. We didn't really fool with it or trouble shoot why it quit cause we were all tired and ate up with bug bites and everyone had poison ivy sap on them from where the gyro was in that ditch so we just put it up and left.
First off, this is not MY gyro. I advised a friend of mine who wants to get into gyros to buy this. He bought it and I was attempting to test fly it. It was delivered to my hangar just last Thursday.
The gyro was ground run before I tried to fly it, but not tied up to a tractor or whatever and run at wide open throttle. It was mostly just taxi tested at relatively low RPM, and run at 2200-2300 rpm for a short time while checking the strength of the brakes and doing a mag and carb heat check. The engine ran great throughout all of that.
The first flight attempt, was the one that lead to this " incident"...
I taxied the gyro to the end of runway 22, which was the preferred runway due to a very slight wind.
( in retrospect there was little to no other aircraft flying that afternoon and the wind was light enough I could have used runway 4. off the end of 4 there is a large open golf course, where as off the end of runway 22 there is woods and more woods.... you need to have some altitude off runway 22 to be able to either turn left or right and either glide to a field or to the runway, runway 4 is certainly the better runway to takeoff from and have a engine out during climb out. I will never takeoff runway 22 with a unknown unproven machine again! )
I prerotated the rotors to 110 rrpm or so and released the brakes and kept pre rotator engaged. I let off the pre rotator by 150 rpms or so and just slowly built speed in the rotor. Gyro eventually rocked back, and I lowered the nose and advanced the throttle even more and focused on trying to keep the nose wheel balanced just off the ground. From this point onwards I didn't look at the instrument panel at all....
As I kept increasing speed and throttle, eventually the gyro took off. I used roughly 1500 feet to become airborne. Was NOT rushing the takeoff because it was my first time flying a twinstar and I wanted a easy conservative takeoff with no surprises. I am sure that I could have been much more aggressive with the throttle, and likely got the gyro in the air in half the distance I took, but I wanted to be conservative on this first takeoff.
As soon as the gyro became airborne I was at full throttle and I kept the nose low for a few seconds to build airspeed then went nose up slightly to climb out. I was climbing out fairly well by the time I passed the end of the runway, then crossed the road at the end of the airport. I wasn't more than 200 -300 feet past the road off the end of the runway when the engine just suddenly lost all power.
I had very little altitude, I would estimate only 200 feet max. And very little time to do much of anything. Feel free to goggle earth view " goose creek airport, 28A " and see what it looks like where I was. If I had tried to land forward, I would have been in tall trees. I was too low to turn left or right and glide to a clearing in a neighboring property. I felt like my only choice was to turn back to the runway.
I almost had it too... There was power lines running from poles at the road, towards the house that is directly across the street from the airport. I was hoping I could clear them, and if I had, I would have made it back to the airport... But I was simply too low, I clipped the top wire ( which was the power wire ) with the left main landing gear leg, and that nearly stopped the gyro... turned the gyro 90 degrees to the left and 90 degrees sideways and slammed it down to the ground under the wires onto its side. In the process the power line broke, along with the cable internet wire under it.
I crawled out of the gyro relatively fine. My shoulder was hurting, It hit the ground hard when the gyro hit the ground, but otherwise I was fine.
Few other pilots from the airport that were there to help me assemble the rotors and watch this flight had already got in their cars and rushed from my hangar down to the road to see what happened and if I was ok. I didn't even bother to look at the gyro... I was feeling blessed and just wanted to go back to my hangar and drink some water and have a cigarette to calm my nerves. One of the guys walked over to the gyro to make sure it was safe to leave there, and he noted that the master switch was on, the fuel pump and alternator switches were on, the mags were set to both, the mixture was set at full rich, carb heat off, and throttle was still wide open. He shut off the master switch and noted fuel was leaking out of the gas cap which is on the right side of the machine, which is the side that was on the ground.
We all went back to my hangar and I relaxed in a chair for about 15 minutes, then we were trying to figure out how we would retrieve the gyro. We got permission to use the airports skidsteer and we got some straps to use and decided to head to the gyro to get it picked up. As we approached the far end of runway 22, we could see fire trucks and emergency response vehicles, police etc.... Even the power company truck was already there!
I had to talk to the paramedics, the fire dept, the county sheriff people, then the highway patrol. Also had to talk to a FAA person on the phone. Told them I wanted to get this gyro picked up and put back in my hangar so I could go home and finally got permission to do that around 6pm. The gyro " crashed " around 330 pm for reference.
The rotor was super bent up, the mast has some damage, but otherwise the gyro held up amazingly well. We ended up doing more damage getting it righted and out of this ditch with the bobcat, we removed both tail halves, and hacksawed the rotor off so we could get it out.
We finally got it out of the ditch and trees / brush it was in and onto smooth ground and towed it on its gear back to my hangar. We put it in my hangar and closed the doors and everyone left. We didn't really fool with it or trouble shoot why it quit cause we were all tired and ate up with bug bites and everyone had poison ivy sap on them from where the gyro was in that ditch so we just put it up and left.
GyroRon
Former Gyro know it all
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2003
- Messages
- 16,852
- Location
- Fort Mill South Carolina
- Aircraft
- Vans RV4 / Dominator 582 Ultrawhite
- Total Flight Time
- ALOT
So my best guesses were it either got water in the gas or trash in the fuel tank that stopped up the filter, or the fuel tank may not have been venting properly and caused a vacuum that stopped the flow of fuel into the engine.
I wanted to try to dig into the machine to see what I could find, so I went to the hangar last night after work and this is what I did...
First I looked for and found a drain Rick had told me about on the bottom of the fuel tank. He said he used this to " sump " the tank before flights. It was a short piece of fuel line attached to a on off valve that was fitted into the bottom of the tank. I placed a small bucket under the line and turned the valve.... and fully was ready to see fuel and possibly water drain out.... But nothing came out at all. Bone dry.
So then I was thinking, perhaps all the fuel drained out of the tank while the gyro laid on its side in that ditch... So I took the fuel cap off and put a wooden dowel down into the tank to check for fuel, pulled it out and sure enough, there was wetness on 6-8 inches on the dowel.
So I then went to the fuel line that supplied the engine. It consisted of a fitting on the bottom of the tank, into a piece of black rubber fuel hose, then into a metal automotive type fuel filter, then another few inches of hose and into a facet electric boost pump. From there, the line continued to a engine driven fuel pump and then into the engines carb.
I removed the fuel line where it screwed into the facet pump and directed the line downwards into my bucket. Fuel began to drain and I let the bucket fill with a few inches of fuel, then raised the line. Note, that the cap was OFF the fuel tank, to insure venting and fuel flow.
I checked the bucket the gas drained into for water or crud and none was found.
So I redirected the fuel line into a empty 5 gallon gas jug and let it drain out. I also used a siphon hose and siponed out a few gallons out of the tank through the filler hole.
The gas was just trickling out of the hose from the tank. Mind you, it comes out of the tank at the bottom, was maybe 8 inches of line, then the fuel filter and then maybe 12 inches of hose, all positioned lower than the tank and into my gas jug. It drained for close to 40 minutes before the tank was finally dry. I checked my gas jug and it had maybe 2.5 -3 gallons in it at this point.
I would think that it would have drained faster, or should have drained faster but I was unsure if perhaps the fuel filter would restrict the flow....
In eithercase I wanted to take a look at the filter itself, suspecting there might be water or something in the filter causing the low flow rate I was experiencing.
So I unscrewed the clamp that held the hose from the tank to the inlet side of the filter, and pulled on the filter to pull it away from the hose. Once I got it pulled off and in my hand, I noticed something red in color just barely sticking out from the inlet port of the filter. It was sticking out just far enough I was able to get ahold of it with my fingernails and I pulled on it, and it was a big slug of what appears to be RTV silicone sealant. It was large enough to almost completely block the inlet of the fuel filter.
I took some pictures of everything, put it on my work bench and closed the doors and went home.
I am convinced that this slug of RTV got into the fuel filter and caused a blockage of fuel flow, that caused the engine to lose power and quit during climb out after taking off.
I still need to go back and check the tank out better to see where this RTV came from. Its possible it may be from the fuel level sending unit.
I also need to see why no fuel would come from the separate drain Rick used to " sump " the gas tank. It may also be plugged up with RTV.
I wanted to try to dig into the machine to see what I could find, so I went to the hangar last night after work and this is what I did...
First I looked for and found a drain Rick had told me about on the bottom of the fuel tank. He said he used this to " sump " the tank before flights. It was a short piece of fuel line attached to a on off valve that was fitted into the bottom of the tank. I placed a small bucket under the line and turned the valve.... and fully was ready to see fuel and possibly water drain out.... But nothing came out at all. Bone dry.
So then I was thinking, perhaps all the fuel drained out of the tank while the gyro laid on its side in that ditch... So I took the fuel cap off and put a wooden dowel down into the tank to check for fuel, pulled it out and sure enough, there was wetness on 6-8 inches on the dowel.
So I then went to the fuel line that supplied the engine. It consisted of a fitting on the bottom of the tank, into a piece of black rubber fuel hose, then into a metal automotive type fuel filter, then another few inches of hose and into a facet electric boost pump. From there, the line continued to a engine driven fuel pump and then into the engines carb.
I removed the fuel line where it screwed into the facet pump and directed the line downwards into my bucket. Fuel began to drain and I let the bucket fill with a few inches of fuel, then raised the line. Note, that the cap was OFF the fuel tank, to insure venting and fuel flow.
I checked the bucket the gas drained into for water or crud and none was found.
So I redirected the fuel line into a empty 5 gallon gas jug and let it drain out. I also used a siphon hose and siponed out a few gallons out of the tank through the filler hole.
The gas was just trickling out of the hose from the tank. Mind you, it comes out of the tank at the bottom, was maybe 8 inches of line, then the fuel filter and then maybe 12 inches of hose, all positioned lower than the tank and into my gas jug. It drained for close to 40 minutes before the tank was finally dry. I checked my gas jug and it had maybe 2.5 -3 gallons in it at this point.
I would think that it would have drained faster, or should have drained faster but I was unsure if perhaps the fuel filter would restrict the flow....
In eithercase I wanted to take a look at the filter itself, suspecting there might be water or something in the filter causing the low flow rate I was experiencing.
So I unscrewed the clamp that held the hose from the tank to the inlet side of the filter, and pulled on the filter to pull it away from the hose. Once I got it pulled off and in my hand, I noticed something red in color just barely sticking out from the inlet port of the filter. It was sticking out just far enough I was able to get ahold of it with my fingernails and I pulled on it, and it was a big slug of what appears to be RTV silicone sealant. It was large enough to almost completely block the inlet of the fuel filter.
I took some pictures of everything, put it on my work bench and closed the doors and went home.
I am convinced that this slug of RTV got into the fuel filter and caused a blockage of fuel flow, that caused the engine to lose power and quit during climb out after taking off.
I still need to go back and check the tank out better to see where this RTV came from. Its possible it may be from the fuel level sending unit.
I also need to see why no fuel would come from the separate drain Rick used to " sump " the gas tank. It may also be plugged up with RTV.
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2003
- Messages
- 18,134
- Location
- Santa Maria, California
- Aircraft
- Givens Predator
- Total Flight Time
- 2600+ in rotorcraft
Thank you for your thoughtful, thorough report on your mishap Ron.
I am so glad you were not injured.
I feel it is best not to use RTV or PTFE tape on a fuel system because it doesn’t take much to stop the flow of fuel.
An engine needs a combustible mixture, compression and spark at the right time to make power.
In my opinion an engine out landing without damage to the aircraft involves a lot of luck.
I hope this will remind people that an engine out emergency landing in any aircraft is serious business and expending effort to prevent an in flight engine out is time well spent.
I hope people will read your post and be reminded just how close to trouble we are when we fly.
I am so glad you were not injured.
I feel it is best not to use RTV or PTFE tape on a fuel system because it doesn’t take much to stop the flow of fuel.
An engine needs a combustible mixture, compression and spark at the right time to make power.
In my opinion an engine out landing without damage to the aircraft involves a lot of luck.
I hope this will remind people that an engine out emergency landing in any aircraft is serious business and expending effort to prevent an in flight engine out is time well spent.
I hope people will read your post and be reminded just how close to trouble we are when we fly.
Brent Drake
Gyroplane Instructor
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2004
- Messages
- 2,147
- Location
- Shelbyville, Indiana
- Aircraft
- Pipers/Cessna's/Magnus, Helo's/Gyro's
- Total Flight Time
- 4,000+
The Twinstar needs to have the nose put on the ground for takeoff. It was designed for this. It should have 2 fuel pumps. Check to make sure they are both working.
It can be rebuilt. Find a good chrome-moly welder.
It can be rebuilt. Find a good chrome-moly welder.
N962GT
Active Member
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2020
- Messages
- 174
- Location
- orig Northville, Mich
- Aircraft
- YG4 Air Command Tandem
- Total Flight Time
- 800 hrs
It's a good thing you were test flying this, Ron. Had it been the owner at the stick things might have turned out very differently, much worse. I had a similar thing happen. The seat tanks used on many gyros are rotationally molded from plastic pellets that are little cylinders about 1/8" dia and 1/8" long.
I had been flying this particular Arrow 1000GT powered gyro for almost 100 hours w/o a hiccup. After returning from Bensen Days one year, the first time I took off the engine coughed, sputtered and quit.
My Airport then was KCJT, Carrollton, with a 5500' RW, so all I had to do was put it back down, crow-hop fashion. (Anyone who says crow hop training is dangerous or not useful is just plain wrong, TYVM.) I drained the tank and nothing was found. I put fresh fuel in it and tried it again. It flew fine. For about an hour. Then it coughed, sputtered and quit again. I was in the pattern, waiting for trouble, and easily glided back down to land it safely.
This time, after draining the fuel completely, I made a 1" snorkel hose attachment for the shop vac, emptied and cleaned the vacuum canister thoroughly, then vacuumed the tank, every nook and cranny. After inspecting the vac can I found half a dozen of those damn plastic beads that apparently were un-melted left overs from when the tank was originally molded.
Hey, stuff happens and sometimes we're luckier than others when it does. Good to read through all this and learn about it all from you, healthy.
Power Lines Zero, Ron 1.
I had been flying this particular Arrow 1000GT powered gyro for almost 100 hours w/o a hiccup. After returning from Bensen Days one year, the first time I took off the engine coughed, sputtered and quit.
My Airport then was KCJT, Carrollton, with a 5500' RW, so all I had to do was put it back down, crow-hop fashion. (Anyone who says crow hop training is dangerous or not useful is just plain wrong, TYVM.) I drained the tank and nothing was found. I put fresh fuel in it and tried it again. It flew fine. For about an hour. Then it coughed, sputtered and quit again. I was in the pattern, waiting for trouble, and easily glided back down to land it safely.
This time, after draining the fuel completely, I made a 1" snorkel hose attachment for the shop vac, emptied and cleaned the vacuum canister thoroughly, then vacuumed the tank, every nook and cranny. After inspecting the vac can I found half a dozen of those damn plastic beads that apparently were un-melted left overs from when the tank was originally molded.
Hey, stuff happens and sometimes we're luckier than others when it does. Good to read through all this and learn about it all from you, healthy.
Power Lines Zero, Ron 1.
BEN S
Super Member
Ron, I know all too well the "Bonnie Situation" and dealing with a wife who is not enthusiastic about your flying adventures. Particularly after being your partner during very trying accident times.
This is how I got into paramotoring....slow simple and has a reserve chute....
Okay so paramotoring is completely lame compared to flying a gyro, but it a was a nice bridge to keep wifey from saying "your done flying".
Don't know if your wifes the same, but if she is, placate her until something else catches her attention, then quietly go back to doing whatever risky behavior you choose! Trinkets and Baubles all though obvious can help as well...In my experience women and fish like shiny, spinney things.
This is how I got into paramotoring....slow simple and has a reserve chute....
Okay so paramotoring is completely lame compared to flying a gyro, but it a was a nice bridge to keep wifey from saying "your done flying".
Don't know if your wifes the same, but if she is, placate her until something else catches her attention, then quietly go back to doing whatever risky behavior you choose! Trinkets and Baubles all though obvious can help as well...In my experience women and fish like shiny, spinney things.
GyroRon
Former Gyro know it all
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2003
- Messages
- 16,852
- Location
- Fort Mill South Carolina
- Aircraft
- Vans RV4 / Dominator 582 Ultrawhite
- Total Flight Time
- ALOT
Last visit to the airport I tried to figure out where silicone might could have been used in the fuel tank... Had to remove the rear seat to get access to the top of the fuel tank. Keep in mind this is a rotomolded plastic fuel tank... Anyways, in the top of the fuel tank is a sending unit for the fuel gauge. Held into the tank with 5 or 6 screws, screwed into the plastic tank inself, not into threaded inserts or molded bungs or whatever... Just 5 or 6 pointy wood screws into the top of the plastic tank. As soon as I took out the first screw I knew I found it, a small chunk of RTV came out with the screw. After pulling all the screws and pulling the sending unit out of the tank I found that someone at some point in the past used liberal amounts of red silicone RTV on both the top of the tank and bottom of the sending unit ( there was a rubber gasket between the two parts ) to seal up the parts. So much was used that a glob had fallen to the bottom of the tank right under the sending unit and was stuck to the floor of the tank still.
My guess is, the trailer ride from ohio to carolinas, with 1/4 tank of fuel in there sloshing around, the fuel must have worked a chunk loose that was able to get sucked into the fuel line and up into the inlet of the fuel filter which was now not able to flow enough fuel to run the engine at WOT.
This is not something anyone would have caught in a preflight, or even annual inspection. Had the gas gauge quit working and someone pulled the sender to check for issues it would have been spotted. Otherwise this has been a accident waiting to happen since whenever some knucklehead decided to use RTV as a fuel tank sealant.
So many ways this could have been avoided too.
Use of a aviation fuel strainer instead of a automotive fuel filter...
Use of dual fuel lines from tank to engine...
Both of those would have eliminated the engine stoppage.
Then there are things I could have done differently, like tying the machine to a truck and running it wide open for 10 minutes... Or taking off the other direction which is MUCH more friendly for a engine out... Or simply taking it by trailer to a bigger airport with longer runway and more open space around it.
End result is a gyro that will probably never fly again, a good friend who is out a bunch of money and may not even pursue gyros at this point, and me... Had to have surgery on my broken collarbone, and will be out of pocket about 8500$ in medical bills, plus the pain of dealing with a broken bone, and not being able to enjoy a lot of my summertime activities for 6 weeks while this heals. I'm lucky to be alive, and am thankful for that for sure, But sure sucks that so much was destroyed because some dummy gooped up a ton of silicone around a gas gauge 10-20 years ago.
My guess is, the trailer ride from ohio to carolinas, with 1/4 tank of fuel in there sloshing around, the fuel must have worked a chunk loose that was able to get sucked into the fuel line and up into the inlet of the fuel filter which was now not able to flow enough fuel to run the engine at WOT.
This is not something anyone would have caught in a preflight, or even annual inspection. Had the gas gauge quit working and someone pulled the sender to check for issues it would have been spotted. Otherwise this has been a accident waiting to happen since whenever some knucklehead decided to use RTV as a fuel tank sealant.
So many ways this could have been avoided too.
Use of a aviation fuel strainer instead of a automotive fuel filter...
Use of dual fuel lines from tank to engine...
Both of those would have eliminated the engine stoppage.
Then there are things I could have done differently, like tying the machine to a truck and running it wide open for 10 minutes... Or taking off the other direction which is MUCH more friendly for a engine out... Or simply taking it by trailer to a bigger airport with longer runway and more open space around it.
End result is a gyro that will probably never fly again, a good friend who is out a bunch of money and may not even pursue gyros at this point, and me... Had to have surgery on my broken collarbone, and will be out of pocket about 8500$ in medical bills, plus the pain of dealing with a broken bone, and not being able to enjoy a lot of my summertime activities for 6 weeks while this heals. I'm lucky to be alive, and am thankful for that for sure, But sure sucks that so much was destroyed because some dummy gooped up a ton of silicone around a gas gauge 10-20 years ago.
Aerofoam
Active Member
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2020
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- 639
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- S. Az.
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- Over 3k....(From the ground !)
Thanks for this info, I am going to go through the seat tank on the AC I bought and redo the fittings, there was already some sketchy repairs, so
I am not taking any chances..
Don't know about WOT for 10 minutes in Az. That could be a recipe for burning up a motor....
Abid
AR-1 gyro manufacturer
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2011
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- Tampa, FL
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- 4000+ 560 gyroplanes. Sport CFI Gyro and Trikes. Pilot Airplane
Silicone and fuel never mix. Van's Aircraft was sued because of a fatal accident a few years ago where the builder used silicone RTV as a sealer in the fuel system. It came loose, plugged up a fuel flow sensor and he had an engine out killing himself and his daughter. Van's never said anything about using RTV silicone to seal in the fuel system. Loctite 565 or similar should be used to seal the threads of NPT fittings or in fuel system. Gasket Maker 2B can be used if needed to seal a gasket but sparingly. Strainer should be located at fuel outlets from the main tank so no big things can make it into fuel line and actually block them.
Tyger
Super Member
That's a key item, from my perspective.
Burrengyro
Gold Supporter
Ron,
I have adopted the practice of emptying the fuel tank totally and flushing everything out of the sump end of the tank at least once a year and doing a fuel flow test to make sure that the minimum flow rate per minute is achieved. You would be surprised at the "muck" that can accumulate in the sump.
Sorry to hear of your accident and thanks for reporting the background to it. Hope you have a full and speedy recovery and return to gyro flying soon. John H
I have adopted the practice of emptying the fuel tank totally and flushing everything out of the sump end of the tank at least once a year and doing a fuel flow test to make sure that the minimum flow rate per minute is achieved. You would be surprised at the "muck" that can accumulate in the sump.
Sorry to hear of your accident and thanks for reporting the background to it. Hope you have a full and speedy recovery and return to gyro flying soon. John H
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