Turn coordinators

Colin Gibson

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2004
Messages
192
Location
Nelson New Zealand
Aircraft
Sparrow Hawk ZK RCU
Total Flight Time
142.6
Has anyone accidently ended up in the white stuff [clouds] and wished they had a 'Turn Coordinator [needle and ball]' as part of their instrument layout.
Colin
 
What good would it do? It would tell you if your turns were corridinated, but not if you were turning or not. I can't figure out what it would do to be of help to a pilot in a gyro.
 
I googled around and found this
>Now I've been taught that there is no way to maintain attitude and
>heading in clouds without reference to instrument flying instruments
>(ie: artifical horizon, turn indicator, heading indicator, etc.). Am I
>wrong here or is it possible to fly in clouds with just the a/s
>indicator, vsi, altimeter and magnetic compass?

... Add a turn needle & ball, & it's not that hard,
that's standard partial panel instument work every instrument student has
to learn. That's why the phrase "needle, ball, airspeed" came into the
lexicon. With a turn needle & ball, a/s, & altimeter, you should be able
to fly with no problem.

The needle and ball does more than indicate coordinated turns.

Another device you might check out is the E-gyro.
https://www.pcflightsystems.com/egyro.html
I did a 2 hour thermalling flight today with lots of steep turns. The
E-Gyro stayed solidly in agreement with my needle and ball and the real
horizon throughout the flight. I observed no drifting whatsoever.

I believe that a gyro(plane) will tend to stay upright if you pull back the stick to reduce airspeed and stay off the throttle. I've been told it will get you down out of the white stuff in a pinch.
 
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Al
Thanks for that infomation. I'm currently deciding the instrument layout for my Sparrow Hawk that is being assembled by the National dealer here. There is room in the pod for another instrument after the radio and transponder is installed. I like the idea of having a 'Turn Coordinator' to inable a partial panel flight should the need arise.
Colin
 
Yeah, a turn coordinator or slip-skid indicator is a good idea in a gyro. If I dig around, I probably have 5 of them in my hangar that I'll sell cheap.

I hope no one ever finds themselves in the soup in a gyro. That would have to be the worst planning and poorest judgment in the world.
 
You could always mount a 'cross hair' on the dash,for the gattli'n gun.
 
I was always told that this instrument would not work in a gyro for some reason.

I think a yaw string is all you need. If you fly into weather, just pull the stick back into a vertical decent. Gravity will take over and you will come straight down.
 
I tried a slip-skid and it was useless. The piece of yarn is your best friend.
 
There are differences between a turn and slip indicator and a turn coordinator.
Thee turn coordinator senses rate of yaw AND rate of bank. The turn and slip senses rate of yaw only.
https://www.avweb.com/news/avionics/183238-1.html

If you are interested in staying in trim, then the yaw string can't be beat.
If you want an instrument that can help you maintain a level attitude in inadvertent IMC then the turn coordinator will definitely help, if you know how to use it. Its a gyro based instrument and will work just fine in a gyroplane. I suppose if you mounted it at the cg of the aircraft, then the ball might tend to not do much, but mounted on the panel , the ball will deflect when in a skid or slip, I'm pretty sure.
In any case, the rate of turn needle will always work because it senses yaw rate with a gyroscope.

The best indicator of all would be an attitude indicator, since it shows roll AND pitch.

There may be no excuse for ever getting into IMC conditions, but one day it just might happen.
 

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Birdy
The Gattling is out for me as there are no camels here giving me grief.
Al
Thankyou for your constructive reply. I accept a lot of pilots would look on a needle and ball as an unnecessary instrument however in mountainous areas as we have here, it may be possible for the safest plan to go amiss. I prefer to plan for the worst and hope it never happens. The instruments you have pictured, are they all powered from the electrical system ? [ No vacume pump needed ]
Colin Gibson
 
Ken
I read a report of a carefull pilot that was caught in a wave over a mountain and ended up in the soup along the way so it can happen.
Colin
 
Colin, I believe the turn coordinators are mostly electric,; not sure about the AI.

I found this comment by John Landry
The reason a turn and slip indicator doesn't work well on a gyro is because the airframe will always be in a slightly "rolled" atitude in flight due to the effect of propellor torque. As a result, the ball in a turn and slip indicator won't be centered when the airframe is in proper trim. A yaw string is immune from this problem.

Maybe that's why Ron was told they "wouldn't work."
 
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Heather
That looks very expensive and will be doubling up on some intruments supplied in the Sky Dat that will be with your Sparrow Hawk kit. I will be allowing for a map reading GPS in the budget after my kit is flying to help in cross country navigation.
AL
Will the propellor still have the same Torque on the airframe when a tall tail is used as with the Sparrow Hawk? If not then the Turn Slip should work normally. I thought that was the idea of the tall tail, to counter propellor torque.
Colin Gibson
 
The ball can be adjusted for S&L flight conditions and will look off when on the ground. But it's when you're in the air that it counts...
 
Thankyou Jerseywing.
That is what I figured but are still unsure whether the tall tail will provide the same torque effect.
Colin Gibson
 
Jerseywing, thanks for the info. Problem solved.

Colin, yes, the tall tail should reduce the torque effect, so you might not even need to adjust the centering. :)
 
Colin, no, I don't have any specific units in mind. May I suggest google. avionics, attitude indicator, etc.
Good luck and let us know what you find.
 
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