Transitioning to gyro from taildragger vs. tricycle gear airplane

[Aaron R]

Does anyone know if it is easier to transition from airplanes to gyros if the airplane experience is in taildragger vs. tricycle gear configuration? Thanks!

 

[GyroChuck]

I had both taildragger and tricycle gear time when transitioning to Gyro's. I don't think it makes a difference.

 

[Sv.grainne]

I would think it depends on what you are trying to transition to.

 

[Abid]

Does anyone know if it is easier to transition from airplanes to gyros if the airplane experience is in taildragger vs. tricycle gear configuration? Thanks!

Every gyroplane takeoff is a 3 pointer tailwheel takeoff or a soft field tri-gear takeoff.
Taildragger pilots generally have less takeoff accidents I would say because they are used to having the stick back. Tri-gear airplane pilots ... well after getting a license the last time they did soft field takeoff could be years ago.

 

[WaspAir]

Taildragger operations can lead to more sensitivity to control feel, kinesthetic awareness to prevent ground loops, and less "fly by number" mental attitude. All that can help.

If I ruled the world, everybody would start in gliders.

 

[GyroRon]

tailwheel fixed wing is a more advanced skill set than tri gear. If you a tailwheel rated fixed wing pilot, you should transition to gyros a little easier / faster.

 

[Doug Riley]

Not mentioned so far is that a gyro during takeoff can be handful in yaw if it lacks a tall tail. The gradually increasing throttle settings cause yaw excursions. Taildragger pilots have well-tuned feet, and can handle this issue with more ease.

 

[Abid]

Not mentioned so far is that a gyro during takeoff can be handful in yaw if it lacks a tall tail. The gradually increasing throttle settings cause yaw excursions. Taildragger pilots have well-tuned feet, and can handle this issue with more ease.

I do not find this to be any more true than amount of rudder you need on most LSA fixed wings on takeoff.
The gyroplane pilots that have had rudder or yaw related issues on these new gyroplanes, simply were not truly ready to solo and needed more time. They are usually taking off behind the curve with pitched too high. Just my $0.02

 

[Aerofoam]

As a newbie, the yaw compensation on takeoff is probably the most challenging thing for me because I find steering with foot pedals to be completely foreign. I plan on doing a fair amount of driving around the mud flat with the AC just to get to where I don't have to think about it....
Peter's AR-1 Required more on takeoff than Ron's MTO, but it wasn't mashing by any means.
Greg"s Dominator just went where you wanted to go with very little input on anything!

 

[Doug Riley]

Abid, it's true that the yaw situation is worse the slower you're going. What's especially challenging in a gyro, though, is that you gradually roll in power during takeoff, and each power change will induce a yaw excursion until you're calibrated to that particular craft, and can anticipate the needed change in pedal pressure.

Foam, maybe rent a bulldozer with pedal steering for practice?

 

[Abid]

Abid, it's true that the yaw situation is worse the slower you're going. What's especially challenging in a gyro, though, is that you gradually roll in power during takeoff, and each power change will induce a yaw excursion until you're calibrated to that particular craft, and can anticipate the needed change in pedal pressure.

Foam, maybe rent a bulldozer with pedal steering for practice?

I don't know. One has to learn to fly the specific machine one wants to fly. None of them seem difficult to me but each has certain things you should get familiar with which is pretty much the same for any aircraft of any type. It is when you don't get familiar and fly things without this familiarity that our ego will come to bite us.
Of course if you are going slower, you have to contend with p-factor in yaw. When you are at proper attitude you don't. If you have that concept clearly understood this makes sense and the correction is easy to attain.
I remember there was some discussion of the 915 powered gyroplanes (I think it was Magni M24 Plus) requiring full rudder deflection to the right to handle the takeoff. Then I got my hands on one and flew it and that was complete rubbish. It would if you let the nose rise up like you have not soloed in a gyroplane yet but if you maintained proper pitch attitude it's really a little right rudder and a little left stick and nothing to write home about.
When we don't know how to fly something it is all hard. When you learn it properly, you look back and say what the heck was the problem.

Aerofoam:
The older AR-1 with big rudder did not require too much use of rudder except at takeoff but from the front seat the rudder was heavier. New AR-1 tail cuts the rudder down in size by almost 40 percent and has a shielded horn to provide mechanical advantage but still more stable in yaw than MTO from I can test. Power changes on AR-1 do not require much rudder input. Only 915 may require some. On Peter's AR-1 if you are putting in rudder with a 914 on takeoff, try getting off of the rudder and let it be. It can do better for itself without your input unless you change pitch suddenly which you should not do because that is fundamentally bad technique on takeoff. The lower the power on the engine, the less torque you have to contend with so obviously less turning tendencies you will have. In Greg's Dominator, it is a light 2 stroke engine and there isn't much going on with it and there isn't any side body area. There isn't anything there to contend with to have an effect, but the compromise is you are stuck with a 2 stroke light engine and no body whatsoever. Like a naked trike. Easy for them to fly nice at slow speeds (50 to 60 mph cruise). But when you get a gyroplane where you want to cruise at 100 mph on a trip, that doesn't work.

 

[okikuma]

Taildragger operations can lead to more sensitivity to control feel, kinesthetic awareness to prevent ground loops, and less "fly by number" mental attitude. All that can help.

If I ruled the world, everybody would start in gliders.

JR,

You know I'm with you 110% with all pilots starting with gliders. Especially with youth programs.

The first man on the Moon, Neil Armstrong started with gliders. History showed us that the resurgence of the Luftwaffe primary pilot traing program in the 1920s through the 1930s was with gliders. The USAF recognized this with the start of the USAF Academy.

94th FTS Soaring Programs

Soaring Programs at USAFA Soaring occurs at the Academy on a year-round basis. The program is the largest glider operation in the world. Its mission is to form the foundation of cadet exposure to

www.aetc.af.mil

Gliding taught me to always start my turns leading with rudder input to maintain coordination throught all turns. I kept that habit with all the subsequent aircraft that I have flown.

Taildragger time is never a detriment.

Wayne

 

[PeterFromLA]

As a newbie, the yaw compensation on takeoff is probably the most challenging thing for me because I find steering with foot pedals to be completely foreign. I plan on doing a fair amount of driving around the mud flat with the AC just to get to where I don't have to think about it....
Peter's AR-1 Required more on takeoff than Ron's MTO, but it wasn't mashing by any means.
Greg"s Dominator just went where you wanted to go with very little input on anything!

You can't compare the need for rudder adjustment in different models based on a flight or two in different parts of the country, under different weather conditions... with limited experience overall.
By the way, you prpobably remeber that as part of the "compensation" you probably did oposite stick as well...

 

[Aerofoam]

You can't compare the need for rudder adjustment in different models based on a flight or two in different parts of the country, under different weather conditions... with limited experience overall.
By the way, you probably remember that as part of the "compensation" you probably did opposite stick as well...

Yeah, but I noticed a difference, none of it was excessive in any way. I am probably more sensitive to it because I am not use to it and tend to over analyse anyway.
But I flew with you in your AR-1 at El Mirage and 2 separate days at Pacoima and I believe I flew with Ron 2 separate days.
One day (second day at Pacoima) with you required more rudder and cross control due to cross wind.
None of it seemed out of place to me, I am just not used to rudder with my feet, it's either on the left stick, or on a 3rd channel knob on the right stick of my custom radio.....
I think I may be a canary in the coal mine here because I have thousands of hours testing and developing aircraft that I have never been able to crawl into! This has been fascinating so far, I wish you were closer......That air traffic freaks me out a bit though!!!

 

[Abid]

Yeah, but I noticed a difference, none of it was excessive in any way. I am probably more sensitive to it because I am not use to it and tend to over analyse anyway.
But I flew with you in your AR-1 at El Mirage and 2 separate days at Pacoima and I believe I flew with Ron 2 separate days.
One day (second day at Pacoima) with you required more rudder and cross control due to cross wind.
None of it seemed out of place to me, I am just not used to rudder with my feet, it's either on the left stick, or on a 3rd channel knob on the right stick of my custom radio.....
I think I may be a canary in the coal mine here because I have thousands of hours testing and developing aircraft that I have never been able to crawl into! This has been fascinating so far, I wish you were closer......That air traffic freaks me out a bit though!!!

Radio control? Compared to actual full size flying? Of course the controls are very different. You have no controls in RC with your feet.
From I can tell AR-1 in a crosswind landing uses very little stick deflection. I usually lead with rudder to take the crab out at about 100 feet AGL and then put opposite stick as needed to keep from drifting. Some pilots like to do it stick first then rudder.
Learn to fly a taildragger. It will fix your rudder illness.

 

[Aerofoam]

Radio control? Compared to actual full size flying? Of course the controls are very different. You have no controls in RC with your feet.
From I can tell AR-1 in a crosswind landing uses very little stick deflection. I usually lead with rudder to take the crab out at about 100 feet AGL and then put opposite stick as needed to keep from drifting. Some pilots like to do it stick first then rudder.
Learn to fly a taildragger. It will fix your rudder illness.

I was thinking about that, there may be some close by possibilities..

 

[Sv.grainne]

Or, fly an Aviomania, idle to full throttle no prop induced yaw.

Whether I've flown a Tango2, Magni, or Autogyro I have had to deal with prop induced yaw. Not bad but it is there.