Too good to believe?

Tyger

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The registered owner is Gyro Revolution, a new business at KISP on LI operating J-Ro, Kallithea, and Autogyro.
 

EdResnick

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Yes, you're limited to flying within a very short radius of a single airport and need to get permission from the FAA to fly anywhere else. Basically this seems to be a factory-built gyro built overseas and so cannot be registered as E-AB. It should never have been imported.
 

dinoa

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Depends on the operating limitations on the Certificate of Airworthiness and the annual program letter sent to the FAA.
 

GyroRon

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plenty of people flying various aircraft with same type of limitations. You just need to set up what you want to do with your local FSDO and all is well. That does look like a nice machine for the price ( if spending 80 grand on a gyro is in your budget )
 

WaspAir

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You typically should expect to get some modest radius around your home base where you can fly when and as you choose to maintain proficiency, but you need to set out an annual plan in advance with all your other intentions listed (e.g., a fly-in at KXXX on May 22-24, an airshow at KYYY from June 12-15, and a static display at KZZZ from July 3-6. If you catalog all the places/dates for events you might like to go, you don't need to actually attend all of them, but you will be permitted to do so. The hang up is that you can't just suddenly decide to take a trip somewhere without having previously put it in your program letter. No spur of the moments stuff; careful annual planning instead. Clever types have been known to pick extra events that are a bit beyond places they actually want to visit so that they can stop in en route to the listed exhibition event.
 

Brian Jackson

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Just as an academic question because I do not know, are these pre-scheduled flights monitored? And by whom? And what are the consequences of an unscheduled flight in this particular example? I wouldn't advocate skirting around the laws, just curious how they are enforced and under what penalty?
 

WaspAir

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Like most things in aviation, we are primarily self policing. One could violate all sorts of regulations and not get caught.
But in this case, a ramp check at an airport where you shouldn't be could bring on a certificate action by the FAA, costing you your flying privileges, and an insurer likely would deny all coverage if anything went wrong.
 

rac3124

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Just to be clear, the average 'fun flying' pilot could NOT register this as a ELSA and/or get a regular Certificate of Airworthiness?
Would this gyro have to be completely torn apart and then put back together to be clear of it's current "Experimental exhibition" status?
Reason: I was seriously looking at purchasing this until I started reading the above posts.
Please advise,
Randy
 

Vance

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In my opinion the only way to register this aircraft as experimental, amateur built is to lie on a federal form.
This has been done and people sometimes get away with it.
If you get caught you have a lawn ornament and you are guilty of a felony.
Experimental Amateur Built means you built it for fun and education.
Taking something apart and putting it back together does not make it experimental amateur built.
For more information see Federal Aviation Regulation 21.191.
 
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WaspAir

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Vance is correct. It is legally no different than taking apart a LearJet 25, a Boeing 747, a North American F-86, or a Goodyear blimp, putting it back together again, and attempting to register it as "Experimental Amateur Built". It might be easier to fool someone one with a gyro than with my extreme examples, but only a fool would try it.

I would check out what operating radius is approved for that particular aircraft for proficiency flying. Many piston aircraft under 800 hp get as much as 300 nautical miles, and if that suits your needs, the annual plan requirement might not be too burdensome for your personal desires.
 

rac3124

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Ok, how what I go about finding out the "operating radius" of this gyro?
And what do you mean exactly when you say, "proficiency flying"?
 

Vance

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The operating limitations for the aircraft are where you will find things like that.
The owner should have those as they are required to be on board the aircraft when she flies.
The operating limitations will spell out exactly what you are allowed to do with the aircraft.
Often experimental exhibition operating limitations will spell out an area to fly so you can stay proficient for the exhibition.
Experimental exhibition is often what they use for war birds and aerobatic aircraft used in air shows. At the beginning of the year you fill out a program letter spelling out where you are intending to fly.
The FAA may decide at any time that you are not using the aircraft for exhibition and revoke your airworthiness certificate.
I recommend you call the owner and ask about the limitations and see the letter he wrote requesting the experimental exhibition category.
 
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Tyger

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Would this gyro have to be completely torn apart and then put back together to be clear of it's current "Experimental exhibition" status?
If you really want to put something together as E-AB, you'd want to start off with an unbuilt one in kit form, I'd say. Once built, it is what it is, as they say.
 

WaspAir

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Ok, how what I go about finding out the "operating radius" of this gyro?
And what do you mean exactly when you say, "proficiency flying"?
Anybody who intends to fly an aircraft somewhere for display, or to demonstrate it in flight for an event, has to stay in practice to be safe and to keep up with recent flight experience legal requirements. Practice to maintain those skills is what I meant by "proficiency", and it's a term the FAA likes to use for such things. The FAA recognizes that practice is both necessary and awkward to schedule far in advance, and that frequent practice is good for safety, so they allow you to fly an Experimental - Exhibition aircraft whenever you wish and as much as you like to stay sharp with your skills, so long as you stay close to your home base of operations. How far from home they will let you go while practicing is the operating radius I mentioned. If you want to take a trip farther than that, you need to have it pre-listed in your annual program plan.
The radius is often determined by horsepower as a crude measure of performance and the speeds you are likely to fly. If you have a massive 27 liter 2000 horsepower Rolls Royce Merlin in your aircraft, they can give you a 600 mile radius, but for a relatively small 280 horsepower Lycoming they might conclude that 300 miles is enough for you (the dividing line often used is above or below 800 hp).
The operating limitations include that radius, and are issued specifically for a particular aircraft (although similar aircraft are likely to have similar limitations, it's the specific ones for that aircraft that control your privileges).
Although the reason for allowing that radius is for proficiency, there is no rule that says you can't keep your skills sharp and have fun at the same time, and indeed, fun can be the primary reason for the flight with maintaining proficiency as an added benefit.
 
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