The Trojan

Greg Vos

Active Member
Joined
May 26, 2019
Messages
758
Location
Cape Town
Aircraft
R44/22 H269/300 MD 500 Magni (all); Xenon RST; DTA; ELA; MTO Trojan
Total Flight Time
Stoped counting at 2000
Here’s a pic of the Trojan complete with agri tank ..not for the weekend warrior
 

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I question the use of nobby tires on unpowered wheels.
Looks bad ass, but check the underside of the rotor blades and back of prop blades after 6 months...
They pick up and chuck pebbles all over

Looks cool though
 
What? No spray bars?
Greg do you have more details on the dispersal system?
 
Yeah, I guess the question is why the knobby tires rather than large smooth tires? And to BenS's point probably a good idea to add a mud /stone deflector to the back wheels
 
What? No spray bars?
Greg do you have more details on the dispersal system?
This particular aircraft is set up to disperse granular type fertiliser ( bespoke) application, we do have aircraft with spray bars that can dispurse liquid.
next time I’m at our factory I will upload some pics of that type of machine.
just some comments on the tyre choice ( and I’m no expert) the draft specification from the Special Forces who Wagtail did the developments for ( aircrafts were deployed in our crime ridden Kruger National Park for Anti Poaching) they said the aircraft must be able to land and take off from a disused brick field to give some insight as to its physical and mechanical integrity, in contrast an MT or Auto Gyro cannot really do well on even a rough grass field.
These really are industrial machines and parts are easily replaceable without complex welding in frames if it gets damaged it’s like giant flying mechano set
 

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Yeah, I guess the question is why the knobby tires rather than large smooth tires? And to BenS's point probably a good idea to add a mud /stone deflector to the back wheels
Mabye you could forward your CV ? I will forward it to our head of development ?possibly they missed a trick 🤣 here is a list of who we are with some credentials ….
 

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Here’s a pic of the Trojan complete with agri tank ..not for the weekend warrior
Wagtail are really into the commercial aspect of gyros, which though a fairly unique and fairly limited segment of aviation is nonetheless there. They have produced some impressive and rugged performance machines.

The practicality of the approach to the design and certification of these machines in SA has been refreshing to see. The FAA is very practical and refreshing to deal with, the CAA/LAA certification is obsessive, unwieldy, and slow, and, although very safe, possibly irritatingly nit picking, and at times, in the case of gyros, dare I say, almost obstructive.

I speak from unfortunate experience of being involved with trying to get a permit to fly for a Bensen B8 that took over two years of simple obstruction before being granted, with no changes from the date of first application.

There is written evidence to back this particular incident, but it was never pushed push as a formal complaint, as that would have risked confrontation with the senior individual who was the obstruction. Never a wise idea.
 
Mabye you could forward your CV ? I will forward it to our head of development ?possibly they missed a trick 🤣 here is a list of who we are with some credentials ….
No need for any sarcastic reference to my expertise, simply asking a question which was prompted by BenS who asked the same question. And I guess it is just possible they missed a trick!
The need for larger and heavier tires is understood, just not the need for knobby ones versus smooth. I was not the only one with this question. I am quite happy to hear a sensible answer without sarcasm as my question was not meant as any kind of challenge. I'm attaching a pic of the type of tyres I'm referring to which are standard for poor terrain aircraft. As for the mud/stone deflector suggestion, that's pretty standard equipment on many off field or rough terrain aircraft as in this Cessna 206 I was recently flying in in Kenya and Uganda.




Cessna 206.jpg
 

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No need for any sarcastic reference to my expertise, simply asking a question which was prompted by BenS who asked the same question. And I guess it is just possible they missed a trick!
The need for larger and heavier tires is understood, just not the need for knobby ones versus smooth. I was not the only one with this question. I am quite happy to hear a sensible answer without sarcasm as my question was not meant as any kind of challenge. I'm attaching a pic of the type of tyres I'm referring to which are standard for poor terrain aircraft. As for the mud/stone deflector suggestion, that's pretty standard equipment on many off field or rough terrain aircraft as in this Cessna 206 I was recently flying in in Kenya and Uganda.




View attachment 1155952
May I apologise for the sarcasm it was out of line and unesassary from my side😐..

The reason we do not use Tundra Type tyres on the Trojan are simply because the smooth round tyre will aquaplane more easily on very wet muddy surfaces during a landing.
Trojan was born from a very specific criteria and has to operate from less than ideal runway conditions, as you can appreciate the nobly type rubber will be better ( so I’m told) for a wet mud slime environment during the touch down phase of the landing, the landing profile of Gyroplane is a little different to that of a FW in that we are using the large disk to slow us down like a big airbrake once the mains are on the ground, at that point during the landing on muddy terrain that is really slippery the off road tyres have proven better to compensate sideways drift.
mid way in this clip you will see a bit of terrain we have put it on, we also demonstrate a full 37degree climb out with a DA of 7500ft and a steady 3000ft per min climb rate @ MAUW.


 
Great video! The knobbly tires would be great for me when our grass runway is saturated and doesn't dry off too quickly between the rain showers!
 
Ah, the tire choice makes sense (side-loading/slipping); thanks for that explanation Greg.
I've seen that video before; just wish your cameraman was a bit more steady (use a tripod?) on some of the clips. :)
Don't know when my next RSA visit will come around (exchange rate is great right now !!), but I want to visit with you when I do !
Brian
 
I've been following the Trojan story for a while. How many are actually in service now and primarily which areas? Agriculture, Conservation, miltary, anti-poaching? On my recent visit to SA I was visiting the Mpumalanga area with some friends who build the Bathawk, and apparently the rhino and ivory poaching is really in a bad way in the Northeast right now. They need as many aircraft as they can get I think up there.
 
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Greg, how are those Subaru engines holding up over time? I have 60 hrs. on a fuel injected EJ25 with cam grind I overhauled and so far it's running perfectly.
 
The only thing in wondering about is the statement about the Ivo prob being durable in bad conditions. Unless he’s changed the way he makes his props the are very delicate and I would recommend you change to a warp drive if you want a prop that can take a ball peen hammer through it and still be able to fly. Ivo designed the Warp Drive and sold the company. When the deal didn’t pan out he designed the Ivo that he is known for now and went into direct competition with WD. We found them very delicate and light props. Then got messed up very easily. The other thing is some people here in Florida have slung that rod in the Center of the prop at the end on the ground. This happened because they oversped the prop a few RPM’s. Just my thoughts for your mission and power plant a Warp Drive would be my choice over the IVO.
 
Here’s a pic of the Trojan complete with agri tank ..not for the weekend warrior

No need for any sarcastic reference to my expertise, simply asking a question which was prompted by BenS who asked the same question. And I guess it is just possible they missed a trick!
The need for larger and heavier tires is understood, just not the need for knobby ones versus smooth. I was not the only one with this question. I am quite happy to hear a sensible answer without sarcasm as my question was not meant as any kind of challenge. I'm attaching a pic of the type of tyres I'm referring to which are standard for poor terrain aircraft. As for the mud/stone deflector suggestion, that's pretty standard equipment on many off field or rough terrain aircraft as in this Cessna 206 I was recently flying in in Kenya and Uganda.




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To add with other examples.

Wayne
 

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Greg,

Is Wagtail still open with the idea of offering the Trojan as an Experimental Amateur Built kit for the USA market? The Trojan would be great for those individuals that are too large/heavy for the European two seat gyroplanes.

Wayne
 
A few more on the Buchner.

Wayne
I don’t see a gyro …. please read my description in my post obove…the landing technion a FW is different to a gyro Sir …yes I had a FW licence so am not speaking from the couch …just saying my explanation explains why we use nobly😁
 
Greg,

Is Wagtail still open with the idea of offering the Trojan as an Experimental Amateur Built kit for the USA market? The Trojan would be great for those individuals that are too large/heavy for the European two seat gyroplanes.

Wayne
Yes kits are on the agenda we are just making sure we can support it fully and that a comprehensive parts list along with very detailed instructions and PoH is available we are also waiting for our CAA part 124 authorisation without that we cannot legally offer any product
I am meeting with our chief designer early next week in Cape Town to discuss certain challenges.
if you looking for a easy to build and maintain machine with the industrial focus this is a strong consideration, please feel free to contact me via Pm or on my email [email protected] or via the wagtail website
I don’t wish to contaminate the forum with offerings and prefer to use the forum for informative and entertainment value
 
The only thing in wondering about is the statement about the Ivo prob being durable in bad conditions. Unless he’s changed the way he makes his props the are very delicate and I would recommend you change to a warp drive if you want a prop that can take a ball peen hammer through it and still be able to fly. Ivo designed the Warp Drive and sold the company. When the deal didn’t pan out he designed the Ivo that he is known for now and went into direct competition with WD. We found them very delicate and light props. Then got messed up very easily. The other thing is some people here in Florida have slung that rod in the Center of the prop at the end on the ground. This happened because they oversped the prop a few RPM’s. Just my thoughts for your mission and power plant a Warp Drive would be my choice over the IVO.
Mike do you know offhand what is the maximum Hp the WD unit can handle?
My understanding is the the WD is good for 160 - 180 Hp continuous we are pushing 235 and upwards ..again I’m uncertain why our team have chosen the prop
I will gladly look into it if you kneed
 
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