The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly for the New Owner of an Older 2000GTX

[Heli-Davidson]

Hi everyone,

For those suffering from Attention Deficit Dis... Oh, look, a butterfly! ... I've added a Reader's Digest version at the bottom. Enjoy!

For those who like to curl up with a good murder/mystery novel for an evening (or weekend), please read on ...

I've been dreaming of owning and flying an autogyro ever since I saw Sean Connery, as James Bond, "fly" one in "You Only Live Twice", when the movie was first released and I was a much thinner/younger kid (I did get to live near Atsugi Air Base in Japan and at Kadena Air Base in Okinawa, for a total of over five years, and loved every second of living in Japan, though). A few days ago, I had the immense fortune to acquire a 1995 2000GTX 2.2 with about 120 hours on it, just for agreeing to haul it off the owner/builder's property. That's the Good part, and before you start hating me (probably too late, already), you need to read The Rest of the Story.

Paaaage Two: The kit was completed in 1996 and, many months later, after an uneventful landing, when the builder started taxiing in a little bit of a hurry to clear the runway for an incoming fixed-wing airplane behind him, his GTX started to buck fore-and-aft, to the point where the engine got up over the main gear. You can probably see where this was going - a rotor blade struck the tarmac in front, and immediately transferred the torque to the rotor hub, which proceeded to tip the aircraft over on its side, whereupon the prop got chewed down to the nubs instantaneously, of course. Fortunately, no one was hurt, and the engine was idling at the point when the prop self-destructed, but, obviously, the rotor blade system was also complete toast. When well-meaning folks ran over to help right the aircraft, they inadvertently caused some mostly cosmetic damage to a door, a strut, and the cabin finish in a few places. To rub salt in that very fresh wound, when the owner got home that day, in the mail was an AD from RAF advising that, under certain circumstances, the 2000GTX could suffer longitudinal instability when taxiing, and provided instructions on how to modify the landing gear to eliminate the potential problem (DOH! Needless to say, his opinion of RAF isn't highly stellar). So, that's the Bad part, and the aircraft wound up spending the next 11 years in its enclosed trailer at the builder's home. He now realizes that, as he enters full retirement, he's never going to have the motivation to repair the aircraft, assuming it's even safe to try to make it airworthy again, and isn't particularly interested in pouring any more money down the rat-hole (especially if RAF would be getting any of it). He doesn't even want to make the effort to undo a lot of his emotionally-attached assembly hours to part out the many things that should be perfectly serviceable, not to mention the time needed to list, process, and ship each item to the four winds over a period of probably months, if not years, to get rid of everything. Even then, most of it would likely go for bargain-basement prices, given the unknown state of everything after the accident. That's the Ugly part, beyond my own ability to scare small children and animals by my mere hulking presence, of course.

Paaage Three: The owner is going to have me sign a disclosure and release from liability on his part, which will state that he considers everything non-airworthy, and that nothing from the aircraft should ever be used in any aircraft again (to cover his butt, of course, which is exactly what I would do). There's a pretty good likelihood that the vast majority of the aircraft is perfectly fine, as it was barely moving when it tipped over, and the engine was at idle when the prop bit the dust, literally. I'm not a complete newbie idiot (just an old idiot) when it comes to aircraft and mechanical and electronic devices, as I've been flying fixed-wing aircraft lane: and helicopters for over 30 years, I'm a mechanical engineer and computer scientist, and I'm most of the way through building a gas-turbine-powered, single-seat Helicycle kit (that was another good deal I fell into, as I bought it from another builder who was part-way done, for the original price of the parts, without having to wait three years to receive everything from the factory, which is the current waiting time for new contracts signed this year - as Joe Walsh sings, "Life's Been Good to Me, So Far").

So, I know that the entire airframe and engine are going to need to go through close inspection, if not complete non-destructive testing, to determine what else may be bent, cracked, or otherwise mangled, and need to be repaired/replaced before the aircraft can even be considered potentially airworthy. I'm assuming that there's no breakaway built into the drive system between the crankshaft and the prop hub to prevent back-torque from being transmitted to the engine in the event of a prop strike, although it may be possible that the way that carbon-fiber fails (i.e., it turns into a cloud of very expensive splinters and dust), and the belt/pulley system may have absorbed enough energy to have saved the engine. On the other hand, everything has been sitting in a trailer for 11 years, and that can't be good for anything with a seal, including the engine and the altitude/airspeed instrumentation (e.g., bellows and diaphragms could dry out, etc.), not to mention the potential for corrosion (the trailer has been within a couple of miles of the Pacific coast where the marine layer rolls in regularly at night, although it's pretty well sealed-up when closed). However, the tires reportedly are still holding some air, so, perhaps there is hope, after all, that other sealed items, and exposed metal parts, are intact. Obviously, a significant level of disassembly will be in order, and I'm going to have to consult with :hail: expert A&Ps to make a full determination of the state of everything.

I've seen the recent letter from RAF about their exiting the kit manufacturing and sales business (another major factor in the owner's decision). The indications that they're still selling parts until stock is exhausted, and that they're apparently unofficially providing support to the couple of hundred builders still toiling away on their kits, is a silver lining, though. Obviously, I'll need to buy some parts, but, not unless I can verify that the aircraft is in good enough shape to warrant putting any more money into it (although, considering that I'm getting it for the cost of gas to drive about 75 miles each way to pick it up and bring it home, I can afford to spend a significant amount that would still be way short of the cost of a used operational aircraft, and would have an essentially new aircraft, when all is said and done).

I'm also aware of the still-raging debates about autogyros potentially needing a horizontal stabilizer, reduction/elimination of the high-thrust line on the GTX by lowering the engine/prop and raising the cabin, and the effects of moving the empennage more up into the prop wash. Since I'm potentially going to be doing major surgery, if my GTX can be made airworthy again, this would be the perfect opportunity to make those kinds of changes, but, I'd want to fly both stock and modified models before making any decisions. I know about the RAF Pilots WWW site, but, other than the factory web site (which still acts as if you can order a 2000GTX - hmmm) and this forum, I haven't found much else in the way of authoritative information and activity about the 2000GTX, and any other useful links would be greatly appreciated.

If anyone knows if/how it's feasible to start over the airworthiness process on an experimental aircraft kit, I'm also interested in that. The owner is going to remove the builder's plate and his N number, but, unfortunately, he applied for, and received, the Repairman's Certificate for this aircraft. The FAA only issues one RC for a given experimental aircraft, forever, so, I most likely can't get one, as I understand the process. I assume there is some kind of paperwork that the factory provides that the FAA uses as a basis for the Airworthiness and Repairman's Certificates, which would obviously include things like a kit model/serial numbers, engine serial number, date of manufacture, compliance with the 51% rule, etc. I don't want to do anything illegal, but, particularly since RAF is now officially no longer in business as a manufacturer, I'm wondering if the disassembly, inspection, and reassembly process will provide an opportunity to reset the odometer, so to speak. From what I've heard, FAA airworthiness inspections on rotorcraft are more of a formality, than anything else, as the inspectors generally have little experience with anything other than airplanes, and most have never heard of a 2000GTX, much less inspected one, before. Since I will be providing my own builder's plate, and my experience with the Helicycle is that you can make up whatever aircraft serial number you want (since your last name is officially the manufacturer's name on the plate and the paperwork), it appears that there will be no way for the inspector to know what the actual history of the aircraft is, unless they have to see paperwork from the kit manufacturer (which, I'm guessing is the case).

It might be too obvious that it most likely was a kit, so I probably couldn't weasel-word my way around that fact, and leave the impression that I built it from close observation of very, very, very similar aircraft (as I understand it, RAF never provided engineering-quality drawings to prevent knock-offs from being built, as well as thwart competition - I wonder if that's still true, given the change in the company's status). I strongly doubt that RAF would issue new paperwork with a different kit number (especially without inspecting the parts at a complete NDT level), but, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to ask. However, I can see how a sharp lawyer could open that up as a liability problem for them, in the event of a future accident where people/property were lost, not to mention potential grief from the FAA for me and them, if it were proven that my aircraft is substantially based on a kit that had been built, registered, and flown by someone else. Then, there's the issue that, if I make the extensive mods like adding a horizontal stabilizer, lower the engine/prop, raise the cabin and empennage, etc., how much of a substantially different aircraft would I have, then? There is also the precedent that, when a commercially-built, certified aircraft is extensively overhauled/modified to qualify as an experimental aircraft, an AC and RC can be issued to the owner/modifier. Like I said above, I'm just thinking out loud (oh, brother, isn't _that_ always a mistake?!), and if there were a way to legally get an RC, that would be great, but, given the initial cost of the aircraft to me, it wouldn't be the end of the world if I couldn't (you can bet your sweet bippy that my tune will change if I invest in a new rotor system, prop, whatever airframe and engine repairs might be required, and replacement of other miscellaneous and always-too-expensive parts, though! :rant: ). There's always the possibility that it just won't be worth trying to make the aircraft airworthy again, in which case I have received all the instruments I need for my Helicycle's cockpit for the price of the gas, temporary storage, and time to remove them, minus whatever I might be able to make by disassembling and selling the remaing parts to other 2000GTX owners (particularly given the former factory's status).

I'm in San Jose, CA, and would love to meet any, and all, 2000GTX owners in the SF Bay area (and, if and when the aircraft is flyable again, pretty much everywhere else, as I love long-distance cross-country flying). I'd also like to meet any instructors and A&Ps with direct experience in/on 2000GTXs, for their professional opinions. I recently joined the PRA-affiliated Sierra Rotorcraft Club in Livermore, since I'm building the Helicycle, and any rotorhead is a good head, in my book (and, like the Maytag repairman, it can get lonely, sometimes, in a world dominated by fixed-wing aircraft, some flown by jerks who seem to go out of their way to diss those whose wings can, and do, rotate). So, I should probably start my search there, even though they started out as a Rotorway group decades ago, and that's what most members have. If anyone else has had a similar accident and was able to get their aircraft back into the air safely, I would be extremely interested in talking/typing with them (my friends say I suffer from diarrhea of the fingertips, when it comes to my Hawthorne-noveleque posts and e-mails, and they have to put aside entire weekends to read them - you can imagine what my enemies must say - but, as I learned from an admiral I used to brief in the Navy, "If you can't be informative, at least be entertaining, damn it!"). I'll try to be informative and entertaining here, but, above all, civil, as I don't do flame-fests. I'll have a level-headed, rational, pleasant discourse on just about any topic with anyone willing to do likewise (but, I do have a wicked sense of humor, and thoroughly enjoy exchanging merciless witty repartee with great friends who know we're just having fun). In the interest of full disclosure, I should tell you that I'm also a member of the Intelligence Community :spy:, with a strong background in both black bag ops :rip: :usa2: and computer security :typing:. It can be mighty tempting sometimes to use my powers to "reach out and touch someone" in a way they'll never forget :twitch:, but, so far, I've managed to restrain myself to remain street legal (boy, is that ever frustrating!), and only exercise my professional talents against the real-world Evil-doers.

Anywaaaay, for those still awake this far down (you might want to dial down the caffeine and/or meth! :flame, thanks for your attention, and we now return you to your life, already in progress. I'll be looking forward to hearing from anyone with useful information, or even a good joke, as I'm going to need lots of both as I wade into the pile o' parts I'm inheriting. I don't know all of the details about the aircraft just yet, as I won't be picking it up for probably a few weeks, after I've snagged/built an appropriate trailer, and found a place nearby to store and work on it (the Helicycle kit is in its own enclosed trailer that I built for storage, transportation, and construction work, and I can only have one trailer where it's stored for a very reasonable cost, especially by SillyCon Valley standards). If you're in, or will be in, my area, please let me know, and I hope we can get together soon. I'll be more than happy to help anyone when it comes to aircraft construction and general kibbitzing, to the limits of my expertise (my strengths tend more toward the structural and electrical - infernal-combustion engines are apparently going to be an area of intense improvement for me, in the immediate future!). I plan to show my not-quite-ready-for-prime-time Helicycle at Vertical Challenge at the Hiller Aviation Museum in San Carlos on 16 June, and a couple of the other four Helicycle builders in this area are also planning on bringing theirs, so I hope to see you there.


NEW! READER'S DIGEST VERSION!

- I'm getting a 1995 2000GTX-2.2L, that was completed in 1996 and has 120 flight hours on it, for removing it from a retiree owner/builder's property

- It had rolled over after severely bucking during a taxi off a runway (landing gear longitudinal stability AD received later the same day - DOH!)

- Rotor system and prop destroyed (OUCH!), and no one was hurt, but, well-meaning bystanders caused additional minor damage to a door, a strut, and a few areas on the cabin surface, while righting the aircraft

- It's been in a trailer for the last 11 years, the tires still have air in them, but, the state of the engine, seals, belts, instruments, corrosion, etc., are unknown

- The owner/builder doesn't have the motivation to determine if it's repairable, doesn't want to sink any more money into it to fix it if it can be made airworthy, and doesn't want to undo hundreds of hours of his assembly time to part it out, and spend the rest of his life selling the parts for pennies on the dollar, anyway, given their unknown condition

- He's providing it with a disclosure and release from liability under the condition that none of it should ever be used in any aircraft (legal CYA, basically)

- He does have the Repairman's Certificate for it, so I can't get one for this aircraft, but, I'm wondering if that can be done if I disassemble and modify the aircraft sufficiently (similar to how certified aircraft can be reclassified as experimental, if enough overhaul/mods are done)

- The recent closure of the RAF factory was pretty much the last straw in making the decision, and the owner doesn't want to reward RAF with any more of his business for required repair parts, if it were able to be made airworthy again

- I haven't seen the aircraft or documentation, yet, I just made a snap decision to commit to moving it off his property by the end of June as soon as I heard about it, and I've got to find somewhere to store and work on it in the San Jose area

- I've been flying fixed-wing and helos for over 30 years, I'm a mechanical engineer and computer scientist, I'm almost done building a Helicycle gas-turbine-powered, single-seat helicopter kit, and I have an inkling about the inspections and NDT that will likely be needed to really verify whether this aircraft can be safely brought back into flyable service

- I'm going to need a lot of help and advice, I'd like to meet as many 2000GTX builders/pilots/instructors/A&Ps as possible, especially in California, or even anywhere out West, ASAP, and am looking forward to meeting those elsewhere as soon as I'm flying the Helicycle, the 2000GTX, or both (trips over the Rockies will be via fixed-wing, until I do my North American tour in a rotorcraft ... when I've got the time and nothing else to live for!)

- I'm willing to help others in my areas of strength, aircraft structures and electronics, but, need to learn all about the 2.2L Subaru carbureted infernal-combustion powerplant

- I'll get my gyrocopter add-on rating if/when I get the 2000GTX airworthy again, and will likely pursue certification through CFI in gyrocopters, to go along with those for helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft that I'm currently pursuing

- I'm currently a software engineer with experience in digital video recorders, expert systems, very large databases, telecom protocol troubleshooting test equipment, and computer security, and have been a Naval Intelligence Officer and pilot, nuclear engineer, port facilities manager, and a bunch of other stuff I'd that would require me to kill everyone who reads this, if I told them about it)

Keep on having a Home of the Whopper, and All the Best,
Jim

"Heli-Davidson" Helicycle builder
RAF 2000GTX Auxiliary Spare Parts Department (for now )
(attached photos are of the pre-accident 2000GTX)

 

[Timchick]

Jim,
Phew, I just finished reading your novel. :welcome: Welcome to the forum. Some of the RAF owners will join in and give you advice on your RAF. How far from El Mirage lake bed are you? There's gyro activity up there. They'll be having a big flyin sometime this summer. You should go and meet the gyro crowd. Good luck with your rebuild. I'd like to see you post some photos of your helicycle.

Tim

 

[StanFoster]

Jim: Put a stab on it and she will fly nice.


Stan

 

[Heli-Davidson]

How far from El Mirage lake bed are you? There's gyro activity up there. They'll be having a big flyin sometime this summer. You should go and meet the gyro crowd.

El Mirage is about 400 miles Southeast of SillyCon Valley, where I am (or, about two hops by 2000GTX, and four hops by Helicycle! ) I'll definitely be checking out the gyro event, even if I have to drive the ol'-fashioned way down through the desert - by 20-mule team wagon! :lol:

I'd like to see you post some photos of your helicycle.

Ask, and ye shall receive. Here are some older photos from before the engine and main rotor assembly were mounted, just before my camera crapped out on me. You can see the back of the gas-turbine engine under the tail boom in some of the photos of the left side. I'll update these with shots taken at the Vertical Challenge event, in a few weekends.

Thanks, and All the Best,
Jim

 

[dragonflyerthom]

Jim

Do you have the builders manual and all the ADs? It will tell you what to check when there is a ground strike.

 

[Heli-Davidson]

Manuals? We Don' Need No Steenkin' Manuals!!!

Manuals? We Don' Need No Steenkin' Manuals!!!

Do you have the builders manual and all the ADs? It will tell you what to check when there is a ground strike.

Hi Thom,

I haven't even seen the "aircass" in-person, yet. The owner doesn't remember exactly what he has, but, he believes that he has all of the documentation. IIRC, all ADs are also held by the FAA (hopefully, on-line), if he doesn't have them (all), and if the factory can't/won't help (I haven't talked to them, yet). This all happened so fast that I still can't believe I scored it. The owner sent an e-mail to our local PRA-affiliated club, and the newsletter editor turned it around in an e-mail with other stuff in it. By the time I found out about the deal, I was sure someone else had already snagged it, and while the owner had gotten some calls and e-mails of interest from as far away as OK and TN, no one had committed to actually come and get it. Since I was local (and, therefore, more likely to actually show up and pick it up), it also just so happens that he and I went to the same graduate school about five years apart, and we're both former Navy officers, as well as fixed-wing and rotorcraft pilots (you want to talk about a small community), he told me it was mine.

I still haven't figured out how to tell my wife, yet :tape:. "Hey, Honey, look what I got for FREE!!! ... well, except for the $10,000 ~ $15,000 and hundreds of hours of my already scarce free time, for the new rotor assembly, prop, engine repairs, storage expenses, fuel costs ..." :laser: :boom: "Hey, Sweetheart, did you see it even has TWO seats, unlike my other toy?" Not that the latter would work - she won't even go up in a Cessna with me. If it's not made by Boeing, Airbus, etc., she won't even sit in it, much less fly in it :lalala: - heavy sigh. I think she might actually want the life insurance money - heck, I can't blame her, that's what I'd want - and spend it on aircraft and flying, of course! :whoo:

All the Best,
Jim

 

[Iron]

Jim This sounds like my story. I picked mine up Wa. The gentleman sold it to me as parts. I did a drop keel put a Don P. suspension landing gear, lengthened the keel, droped the engine seven inches, put a larger prop on it, and in the process of trying to find the perefect h/s. I've been on this forum for quite a while where I have got most of my questions answered and picked up several parts. I have found that the majority of the members are very helpful. Good luck Roy

 

[Heli-Davidson]

This sounds like my story. I picked mine up Wa. The gentleman sold it to me as parts. I've been on this forum for quite a while where I have got most of my questions answered and picked up several parts. I have found that the majority of the members are very helpful. Good luck

Hi Roy,

Thanks for the encouragement. Was yours in pieces because it was in an accident, too? At least mine is all in one hunk that can be rolled around on the wheels, and I will be able to sit in it and make gyro noises until I know the full extent of the damage - and heck, afterwards, if it's not worth making airworthy!

I'd love to visit your neck of the woods/mountains on an extended cross-country (but, probably via fixed-wing, unless I really take my time to go the scenic route between gas stops - oh, that's right, I will be able to use actual auto gas, and won't need Jet A like I will for the Helicycle!). I drove all the way across your beautiful state on I-94, down into Idaho, last August, when I towed my Helicycle from its original owner's location in Minneapolis, down to here in SillyCon Valley. The forest fires were raging right along I-15 near the Idaho state line back then, and I'm glad I wasn't flying low-and-slow, then.

Take good care, let me know what h/s you go with, and All the Best,
Jim

 

[Heli-Davidson]

In talking with the owner/builder, he doesn't recall receiving any videos showing construction back in 1995/96. Does anyone know when the video (tapes, I'm sure, back then) became part of the construction documentation? Has anyone dubbed these to video CDs, or, better yet, to DVDs? If someone can lend me the tapes, I can do that, and provide copies for the cost of the materials and mailing.

Seems like I should get a copy of the latest kit construction manual, too. Did they distribute/offer updated manuals/inserts as new versions came out, or just rely on ADs? The FAA website has gone stupid as of very early Monday morning, but, only in the AD by Make section that I need. The FAA Motto: "We're not happy until you're not happy." Well, Mission Accomplished, bureaucrats!

Thanks, and All the Best,
Jim

"Heli-Davidson" Helicycle builder
2000GTX-2.2L Auxiliary Parts Department (for now! ):

 

[dragonflyerthom]

Jim

PM me your phone number.

 

[Harry_S.]

Hi Jim, welcome to the forum and specifically to the RAF Forum.

I built my machine in '97 and have the video tapes from that era...altho not really helpful, nor is the construction manual, sorry to say. I offered to rewrite the manual for them but, no reply. I can send the tapes to you for transfering to DVD, if you want...no problem.

It would be best, as you alluded, to consult an RAF CFI ...if one was close to you...in your reconstruction. Too bad Duane Hunn is not nearby, he would be ideal.

Might I suggest that you privately contact the forum's Tom Milton. He is a highly qualified, informed DAR and should be able to answer your paperwork questions on rebuilding and re-licensensing. Tom is also well versed on the RAF machines.

Again, welcome to the RAF and the forum and if I can be of any assistance...


Cheers

 

[Hognose]

Jim,

good luck with your rebuild. A number of forum members have rebuilt RAFs so it can be done (might be easier with parts from the factory, but there are alternatives. It sounds like you have all the RAF-specific mojo).

I've been trying to put together a census of RAFs, a kind of registry, since the company indicated they were exiting the market. A long way to go, but the serial number of the machine is in this format:

H2-95-6-170

H2 = RAF 2000

95 = kit model year. At least one forum member, Marty Weaver, has a 95 kit that was completed and registered in 1996. He may be able to tell you what you're missing, documentation wise, but I wouldn't bug him till you've actually picked it up and inventoried it. By 1995 the initial, problematical cabin and windshield had been changed. I think you will have the later doors, too.

6 = production year. 1995 was the sixth year for production of the RAF 2000 series.

170 = Consecutive unit number. In 1995, serial numbers ran from somewhere between 144 and 154, to somewhere between 198 and 201. RAF's peak production appears to have been between 1995 and 1997 with 60-70 machines a year leaving the factory.

Anybody else with an RAF, PM me with your info, particularly people who have converted, retired, or written-off their machines. I plan to put the registry online when it's more complete, as a resource for the gyro community. I have about 120 RAFs identified from public documents (including most mishap machines. Nothing generates paperwork like a prang).

cheers

-=K=-

 

[Hognose]

Airworthiness Directives...

You will not find these for experimental aircraft on the FAA site. ADs are a continued airworthiness system for type certified aircraft. Many kit manufacturers copy the AD system and call their maintenance updates "ADs" or "Service Bulletins," but strictly speaking they're not, because the kit maker is not the manufacturer -- the builder is. So in theory you could completely blow off a factory-issued "AD" for the RAF, and you WON'T find it in the FAA system.

(I say, "in theory." There are a lot of things one can do, in theory, that are resonantly stupid if implemented "in practice." Airworthiness is no place to play semantic games).

At least one RAF has been registered as "manufactured" by two different builders, the one who built it the first time and put about 200 hours on it before crashing, and the one who built it back again (the first pilot was not injured, but the wreckage changed hands after the mishap and showed up with a new N# and "manufacturer").

cheers

-=K=-

 

[Heli-Davidson]

Serial Numbers, AA CLT Mod & Manual(s)

Serial Numbers, AA CLT Mod & Manual(s)

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the info on the serial number breakout and lack of experimental ADs on the FAA site. I found the serial number for the 2000GTX I'm getting, but, I'm not going to broadcast it, or the current N-number, until/whether I determine whether I can get another Repairman's Certificate in my name after an essentially complete rebuild, to probably include at least an h-stab, and maybe even a near-CLT mod, like the American Autogyro version (assuming it's even worth rebuilding at all).

When I looked up the American Autogyro dealers list, there was an entry for a Lionel Drage right here in San Jose, but, the phone number is in Salt Lake City. I've sent him e-mail, and if I don't hear from him that way, I'll try calling him. We don't have many gyros here in the immediate SF Bay area because of the significant fraction of the 60,000+ millionaires/bazillionaires who think they have more important places to go at near-Mach in their G-5s, than pesky little gyro amateurs. Helicopters have steadily been zoned out of operating from many metropolitan area airports across the country - we can land and take-off while in-transit, of course, but, can't be based there - so, we visit those airports and buzz around the pattern low-and-slow, early and often, making special air deliveries uke: !

Word is that the construction manuals suck - does anyone know if they have been updated from the 1995 models and, if so, do they contain add-ins, or rewrites (i.e., if I have to get a manual from the factory, will it be model year specific?), and are all corrections/mods identified by the factory only in the ADs, the updated manuals, all-of-the-above, none-of-the-above, etc.? Of course, I won't have to worry about how to do the original assembly, since I can photo/video any disassembly I perform.

Thanks again to everyone for the welcomes, encouragement, and data points.

More to Come, and All the Best,
Jim

 

[Heli-Davidson]

Reply from RAF about Manuals, Parts, etc.

Reply from RAF about Manuals, Parts, etc.

Greetings RAFlings,

I was pleasantly surprised Tuesday AM to have both v-mail and e-mail replies to questions I had e-mailed RAF Monday night. Mark Thornton at RAF said that they would be more than happy to send me a current manual, videos, and all 41 factory builder notices for US$350. He reiterated that they will be selling parts until the existing supply of each is exhausted, and that no additional parts will be manufactured by the factory in Canada.

Mark also stated that "A company in South Africa will in the future be manufacturing the aircraft and this information will be released at a later date." As a result, in answer to my question as to whether engineering drawings of the kits would be released to kit owners, given the status of the Canadian factory, he said, "We will not be making engineering drawings available to the public under any circumstances." This isn't surprising, with the SA transition pending, liability concerns, and the (certainly over-paranoid) desire to keep knock-offs from appearing (like, who's going to want to copy a design with a net-resultant target demographic of highly-skilled/twitchy gyro pilots, who aren't as wide-in-the-side as SparrowHawk builders? Note: the opinions expressed are solely those of people who have flown the RAFs, which does not include me - yet!).

Mark was only able to provide contact information for one other 2000GTX builder/owner in California, Paul Sierra, in Lompoc (about 240 driving miles Southeast from me, about halfway between San Luis Obispo and Santa Barbara). That's a little surprising, given that over 700 kits have been sold, but not as surprising as it otherwise might be, given that ultralights and helicopters are aircrafta non grata for basing at most airports within 50 ~ 100 miles of a major metropolitan area - they're seen by the speed-o'-heat fixed-wing bazillionaires as low-'n-slow hazards to navigation that don't show up on their fancy-schmancy color-by-number glass cockpits, so they can't come screaming straight-in at 200 knots until the last 1/4 mile of final, when they just have to drop the throttle to 50% to achieve stall speed in time for landing. Announce when passing over a non-towered airfield at 2,000 feet AGL before entering the pattern via the 45? What's a pattern? What's a "45", a newer, bigger, faster Gulfstream model?

Mark also listed the following 2000GTX CFIs:

- Dofin Fritts (Brewton, AL - I flew there during my Pensacola days)
- Jim Logan in Williston Park, NY
- Duane Hunn in Mentone, IN
- Geoff Downey in Lowell, WI
- Marty Weaver in Mustang, OK (man, that just beats the pants off just about any other city/town name, don't it?)

I already knew of Dofin, Jim, Duane, and Marty from other posts in the forum, but, still no one anywhere near here - guess I need to add the rocket-assisted take-off option to my 2000GTX and point my carcass in the general direction of Marty in Oklahoma (didn't a previous Darwin Award winner try that with a car - once? :flame: ).

No response yet from Lionel Drage, alleged AA dealer in San Jose/Salt Lake City, so I may have to dial his web-published phone number, or the factory, to find out where the closest place is that I can see the near-CTL AA kitlet for the 2000GTX. May just have to wait until the El Mirage gyro gathering in September, for that, but, that will be early enough, given the amount of work I have ahead of me, not to mention budget I don't have anywhere within sight of me - even from 100,000 feet.

Well, at least I'm not bored (not that I was before, what with transitioning between jobs, getting ready to move between houses, building the Helicycle, working on commercial/CFI ratings, being VP of the local EAA chapter, being a docent and artifact restorer at three local museums, etc.). It sure beats the alternative Six Feet Under!

Many thanks for the continuing flurry of PMs containing more nuggets, and All the Best,
Jim

 

[route66]

Jim, Just beware, the manual and tapes you will receive will be for the 2006 model of the RAF and will not be the same as your bird. The basic landing gear, mast and keel will be helpfull, but if I had it to do again I would find someone with a manual for your bird and make a copy. I was lucky to find a manual for my year. The manual I purchased last year from RAF is almost useless to me as a bunch of changes were made since 2000. One upgrade that was not in the manual or their updates was for the small gear on the redrive which adds a second bearing, a new design shaft and a little machining of the support.

Don't give up on the AAI Mod. If your dealer does not respond call Groen Brothers in Salt Lake or Buckeye or contact Stan here on the forum. If I remember corectly he would give you his commission back for all RAF augmentation kits he sold. Heck I purchased my augmentation kit from Terry Eiland in Florida and picked it up in Buckeye. Their customer service has been #1 and they go to great lenghts to help me in any way.

I don't know how you type those long posts, my fingers are tired and will leave this here. Best of luck on your rebuild, keep smiling!

 

[Heli-Davidson]

Manuel Transmission, or Otto Matic?

Manuel Transmission, or Otto Matic?

Hi Brandon,

Just beware, the manual and tapes you will receive will be for the 2006 model of the RAF and will not be the same as your bird.

Thanks very much for the manual advice - it confirms my suspicions (of the usual suspects ). It seems like it might be useful to have both the newest manual, as well as the original (which the current owner just hasn't looked for, yet, so I may actually be getting it, and, if not, several forum members have already offered to provide access to their manuals, or copies). I'm guessing that the factory "ADs"/notices contain all the "highly-recommended" (i.e., effectively mandatory) mods that fix really egregious problems (not including the lack of an hstab or CTL, but, apparently, Your Madness May Vary ). However, there are clearly some newer parts in the more recent models, some of which would require significant changes to an older model to accommodate. Is there a comprehensive list of the incremental changes that have been made, by part numbers/names/reasons anywhere? I'll volunteer to build such a list, if RAF owners of the representative model years/groups are willing to send me the raw data. Another thing I'd be willing to do is digitize the manual for every year/group and, if I can get permission, post them, and, if not, then establish a double-dog-secret Skull and Bones Society type of organization with better security than a kiddie-snuff-porn site (don't _even_ ask me how I know how to do this, but, let's just say it's another side benefit of being a card-carrying member of the Intelligence Community - remember, I'm a White Hat Spy vs. Spy guy! :spy:

Don't give up on the AAI Mod.

Following numerous reminders from forum members, it's finally sinking into my pea-sized brain that I'm not getting a free autogyro (I never really believed that, of course - really! Well, maybe I got giddy for just a little while), I'm getting a pile of parts, many of which may be serviceable, and some of which are missing/mangled (and, therefore, useless, and it will take time and money to not only replace them, but, remove the bad apples). The cost of mods over-and-above the stock setup could easily put the final cost of everything close to that of an original stock kit, but, of course, it will be anything but stock, at that point, and reportedly much different (almost everyone seems to be saying at least as good, all the way to extraordinarily better). If Stan, or anyone else, provides a Really Good Deal on anything, I'll be more than ecstatic to take them up on it, but, even that will require money, something that is currently in limited supply, having swallowed an entire Helicycle kit over the past year (and, it's the kind of "gift" that keeps on giving, or, more accurately, taking - time, money, family, friends ... ! :rant: ). Heck, just the cost of gas to pick up the heap, and a storage/work area, in addition to that for the Helicycle, is going to put me into PBJ mode (without the PB or J ) - again (once a builder, always a builder, right? ).

I don't know how you type those long posts, my fingers are tired and will leave this here. Best of luck on your rebuild, keep smiling!

I'm a professional software developer, so don't try this at home, keeds - it will be r-r-r-r-reeeealllly scar-r-r-r-ry! oooOOOOooooh!!! (with apologies to Count Floyd, of SCTV infamy). I'm being considered for a new job for which the prospective employer is looking for someone to write at least 3,000 pages of software code and documentation (and, yes, it has to work, actually be useful to their customers, and be comprehensible by "normal" people, whatever _those_ are! :lol: ) - do you think I have a shot? Please vote "Yes" early and often! And we thank you for your support!

Keep those suggestions, recommendations, dire warnings, and threats coming - they're all informative, and often even entertaining, and why else would we all be here, when we really want to be Out There, Flying?

All the Best,
Jim

 

[Heli-Davidson]

Magical Mystical Enginery Tour

Magical Mystical Enginery Tour

Howdy Friends, Romans, Countrymen,

Once I finally have The Hulk in my hot little hands, how do I figure out what the model year and other pertinent data is for the 2.2 carbed Soob? Is there an on-line place where the serial number is mapped to such info?

Did RAF get the engines new from Soob, and modify them significantly, or are they modified rebuilts? Is there any info that normally comes with the engines to show their history before their aviation use, if they're rebuilts?

I'm just continuing to prep for the Happy Day when I will get to go pick up the beast, which I was hoping might be this Saturday. However, due to the owner's travel sked (he flies other peoples' private jets and turboprops around the country for them for pizza and beer money), it may not be until the third or fourth weekend of June :Cry: . I still need to figure out where I'm gonna work on the second bird - I may have to build a second trailer in addition to the Helicycle Hangar on wheels, but, if I park it on the street by the house, I'll have to move it every three days (stupid city law says vehicles on the street have to be moved at least 680 feet every 72 hours, but, they only start chalk-marking the tires if someone complains about a particular vehicle - I may have to resort to payola to a neighbor - grrrrRRRRR!!! :rant: ). Note to self: start looking for at least 680 feet of heavy-duty extension cord on sale, to run tools and air conditioner in trailer, in the worst-case scenario.

Thanks again to everyone's immense help, so far and to come, and All the Best,

Jim

 

[Heli-Davidson]

Dr. Kill-Dare Ready to Start Surgery - After He Acquires Gideon's Bible

Dr. Kill-Dare Ready to Start Surgery - After He Acquires Gideon's Bible

Howdy everyone,

July was a very busy month for me for various reasons I won't bore you with (there's more-than-plenty of on-topic stuff I can bore you with, instead :bored: ). I'm ready to start surgery on The Hulk to inspect everything and do some of the more popular mods, but, before I can put things back together, it would be more-than-nice to have a copy of all of the construction documents. $350 for the current manual from RAF ain't gonna hack it, as I need the docs for an original 1995 kit, not the latest and still-not-greatest version - I will also need the complete set of factory recommended changes ("AD"-equivalents). Several people have offered to loan me their documents so I can scan them into electronic form, but, it's not clear to me whether any of those are for a 1995 kit. If anyone does have a set for a 1995 kit that they can loan me, I'll gladly pay the postage, and return them as soon as I can scan what I need (probably about a week).

There are some issues I am going to need advice on, as follows:

There is some mild surface corrosion on some parts due to exposure to moisture/humidity/condensation. Can this just be wire-wheeled off of stress-exposed parts, and the surfaces polished such that there are no stress-riser-causing pits/scratches? Can a chemical corrosion-removal product (e.g., Naval Jelly) be safely used to start the process of dissolving the oxidation?

When removing bolts, should a torque wrench be used to ensure that no more than a particular amount of torque is applied, to prevent snapping of bolts? Is there anything better to use than penetrating oil to loosen stuck bolts? Should bolts/fasteners that have any corrosion, no matter how slight, just be replaced?

How much fiberglass needs to be sanded down (e.g., how deep and how far back from each side of a crack) and replaced when repairing cracks in the cabin, or can epoxy just be applied into the cracks and clamped? It doesn't seem like the latter would provide the original strength in the event of a crash, but, then, it doesn't seem like the cabin would provide much protection beyond more than abrasions.

It occurred to me that I already have a pair of rotor blades - from my Helicycle (I can't fly both aircraft at once, and the blades will come off the Helicycle before aircraft storage/movement in its trailer), and it seems like it would be possible to adapt the main rotor hub to hold those blades, and I'm pretty sure they can handle the load (although I'll have someone qualified check the calculations). However, I'm sure the Helicycle blades weigh upwards of three times the original factory RAF carbon-fiber blades, which might require heavier-duty main rotor hub components to handle the increased weight/mass (hub, bolts, bearing ... pre-rotator parts? ... mast? ... others? ... ).

I will still need a set of three prop blades - any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, if there's anything more cost-effective than a new set from RAF.

Another wild and crazy idea I've had is adding some structural elements to allow a fixed-wing to be attached across the top of the aircraft, with appropriate links from its ailerons (and flaps?) to the cyclic/stick, as well as adding a horizontal stabilizer with an elevator and the required links to the cyclic/stick. The only reasons I thought about this were for long-distance cross-countries where I would want to minimize pilot fatigue and possibly increase cruise/Vne and/or decrease fuel consumption for a given speed, and trading these off for runway take-off/landing distances, of course. This would be a long-term experiment, not something I will do anything more than think about until well after I've got the RAF flying again as a gyro, as God has always intended. My understanding is that something like this may have been done with another gyro make/model, but, no one has been able to point me to an actual example.

OK, everyone is asleep, now - Mission Accomplished!

Thanks for your help and advice, and All the Best,
Mr. Crazy-and-Boring

 

[quadrirotor]

Heli-davidson, can you write an executive summary of your posts...I can't read them...No time...