Stop & Drop

cburg

Newbie
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
3,908
Location
Houston
I’m trying to establish parameters for the G-force gear. Larry has been very helpful, but I’d like to learn more from other owners about their field experience.

Basically, all I have done is a few stop and drops from a max of 10-15 feet. This is the full extent of my comfort range. What else is safe and advisable to do?

Powers settings, airspeed, rotor RPM, altitude, x-wind?

Thanks,

Chuck
 

Greg Mitchell

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Messages
1,959
Location
Australia
Aircraft
Butterfly Monarch 582
Total Flight Time
200 hrs
I would advise to be carefull in strong crosswinds when using G Force as you need to keep the nose up at 10 degrees till the landing gear settles, this leaves you vunerable to any x-wind. I prefer to land into the wind if it is very strong as the gyro will zero roll on landing, so cross strip landings are common for me.

I would not routinely drop in from 15 feet. Just as I would not use the MLS pre-rotator to spin the blades to MAX rrpm everytime I use it.

Power on or off it doesn't matter.

Airspeed, nil wind no less than 15 mile per hr.

rrpm????

Cheers

Mitch
 

cburg

Newbie
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
3,908
Location
Houston
I would advise to be carefull in strong crosswinds when using G Force as you need to keep the nose up at 10 degrees till the landing gear settles, this leaves you vunerable to any x-wind. I prefer to land into the wind if it is very strong as the gyro will zero roll on landing, so cross strip landings are common for me.

I would not routinely drop in from 15 feet. Just as I would not use the MLS pre-rotator to spin the blades to MAX rrpm everytime I use it.

Power on or off it doesn't matter.

Airspeed, nil wind no less than 15 mile per hr.

rrpm????

Cheers

Mitch

Thanks Mitch for the info.

You have the 6’ or 7’ wide landing gear?

How about the airspeed that these gear can handle from altitude all the way to the ground without a flare? Seems like around 20-25?

Do you have a G meter?

Chuck
 

cburg

Newbie
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
3,908
Location
Houston
Thanks Mitch for the info.

You have the 6’ or 7’ wide landing gear?

Chuck

Hey Mitch,

Have you ever (partially) lifted up the gyro and locked down the gear to narrow the wheelbase to fit in a 6’ trailer?

I have an uplock...but am considering a downlock too for the above scenario.

Chuck
 

cburg

Newbie
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
3,908
Location
Houston
Chuck...
You have the 6' landing gear.

Thanks Mike,

6'-2" unfortunately for my 6' trailer. I need to suck up the gear (and lock them) to fit it, or put on skinny tires on for transport.

I’m going to wait until spring before I buy a nice enclosed trailer. Only two more weeks of fly-ins have been scheduled.

I’ll try to simply squeeze them together with a ratchet strap and a hoist. In the field, I’m not sure how to hoist (may need to jack it up). Since they are over-center when up (on the ground) I sure I can simply squeeze the wheels together without lifting is past center. I’ll find out soon.

I was finding out if Mitch has flown both the 6' & 7' and whether he noticed much of a difference…particularly with stop & drops. The wheel base decreases by a foot or so (I estimate) when hanging.

Chuck
 

cburg

Newbie
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
3,908
Location
Houston
Thanks Mike,

6'-2" unfortunately for my 6' trailer. I need to suck up the gear (and lock them) to fit it, or put on skinny tires on for transport.

I’m going to wait until spring before I buy a nice enclosed trailer. Only two more weeks of fly-ins have been scheduled.

I’ll try to simply squeeze them together with a ratchet strap and a hoist. In the field, I’m not sure how to hoist (may need to jack it up). Since they are over-center when up (on the ground) I sure I can NOT simply squeeze the wheels together without lifting is past center. I’ll find out soon.

I was finding out if Mitch has flown both the 6' & 7' and whether he noticed much of a difference…particularly with stop & drops. The wheel base decreases by a foot or so (I estimate) when hanging.
 

Mike Stone

Self Induced Grounding
Joined
Apr 11, 2006
Messages
456
Location
Cypress, Tx (near Houston)
Aircraft
none
I know Larry said he flys the wider option.

If you raise the main gear gear and not your nose gear, you will have the nose pointing down somewhat...but will give the appearance of "trunk'n on". :)
 

cburg

Newbie
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
3,908
Location
Houston
I know Larry said he flys the wider option.

If you raise the main gear gear and not your nose gear, you will have the nose pointing down somewhat...but will give the appearance of "trunk'n on". :)

Like our hot-rods jacked up in the rear in the 60’s & 70’s ;-)

I just realized that I could have a swing arm attached to the back of the trailer. As I winched the gyro onto the trailer, just before getting in the mains…deploy the swing arm…which would lift the center while at the same time winching it onto the trailer. It would save one step.

Of course, in reality I’ll just buy a new/bigger/better trailer.

I was thinking a 6’ with dualies (or offset rims with wide tires) would offer nearly the same stability as a 7’…if I ever needed it.

Note: I'm raising my already high CG with my upper mast-mount aux fuel tank...as per the manufacturer.
 

Greg Mitchell

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Messages
1,959
Location
Australia
Aircraft
Butterfly Monarch 582
Total Flight Time
200 hrs
Hey .Chuck,

There is a piece of the G Force Video which was edited out where I came into land and kinda forgot to flare,. Banged it in very hard. Cant recall the airspeed, I'm guessing 20 knots but it was slow and I remember saying this is gonna hurt BUT the gyro handled it well . When I get my computer back and working I have several video projects to attack but I'm sure I can upload that little segment for you to see.

I have flown the 6' single place G Force and the Golden with the wider stance.

Cheers,

Mitch
 
Last edited:

cburg

Newbie
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
3,908
Location
Houston
Hey .Chuck,

There is a piece of the G Force Video which was edited out where I came into land and kinda forgot to flare,. Banged it in very hard. Cant recall the airspeed, I'm guessing 20 knots but it was slow and I remember saying this is gonna hurt BUT the gyro handled it well . When I get my computer back and working I have several video projects to attack but I'm sure I can upload that little segment for you to see.

I have flown the 6' single place G Force and the Golden with the wider stance.

Cheers,

Mitch

Thanks Mitch,

I’d like to establish a safe minimum approach speed…not for regular landing but for emergent situations. As you know better than I, this was the intent of the design feature…safety. Like forced landings into a plowed field or a pile of boulders.

If you’re dead-stick, low and going to overshoot the desired touchdown point (such as an open patch between obstacles), the steep approach could be useful.

Ordinarily, one would try to do a normal approach…a little high…then stop and drop onto the pile of boulders, or into the top of the trees (assuming no other options).

There is a video clip (link did not work) that supposedly shows a guy who had a mishap doing stop & drops. Perhaps you have a link. It would be instructive.

Larry of course, is the master and he makes it look really easy. It actually takes a little more nerve and skill than I originally expected. Right away you realize that you are *still* landing…all the way down until the gear bottoms out…and you have to fly it all the way down. Larry always emphasis’s this, and he’s right.

I think I’m going to need a G-meter to sort it out the numbers.

Any feedback on the Jabiru Monarch?

Chuck
 

Greg Mitchell

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Messages
1,959
Location
Australia
Aircraft
Butterfly Monarch 582
Total Flight Time
200 hrs
Jabiru Monarch?

Jabiru Monarch?

There was a guy some years back was going to do a Jabiru powered Monarch in Canada, I guess if it is in a real cold climate area it might work.
Jabiru, AeroTwin and BMW and others have been tried and found to be lacking in either power to weight or effective cooling.

Who is trying a Jabiru now?

I have had the Monarch hung from the shed roof beam, this allows for the shocks to extend, how you'd pin them or lock them, not sure, perhaps some 3mm flat plate bolted to either end of strut, as a brace plate, to stop it from settling down. That would work.

I think Larry has the specs on each of the G Force Landing gear types per Butterfly model, (web site) so if the rate of a vertical decent is grater than the numbers listed, just work out your average rate of decent to match with maybe 10% safety factored in and there will be your ball park forward. Does that make sense?

Mitch.
 

Greg Mitchell

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Messages
1,959
Location
Australia
Aircraft
Butterfly Monarch 582
Total Flight Time
200 hrs
G Force ROCKS! BUT yes you do have to fly it all the way till it settles fully and never dump the nose down hard.

I noticed a two place gyro from Brasil I think has a G Force type setup. They look like they will go into production.

There have been a couple of homebuilts that have designed something similar.

Mitch.
 

cburg

Newbie
Joined
May 31, 2012
Messages
3,908
Location
Houston
There was a guy some years back was going to do a Jabiru powered Monarch in Canada, I guess if it is in a real cold climate area it might work.
Jabiru, AeroTwin and BMW and others have been tried and found to be lacking in either power to weight or effective cooling.

Who is trying a Jabiru now?

I have had the Monarch hung from the shed roof beam, this allows for the shocks to extend, how you'd pin them or lock them, not sure, perhaps some 3mm flat plate bolted to either end of strut, as a brace plate, to stop it from settling down. That would work.

I think Larry has the specs on each of the G Force Landing gear types per Butterfly model, (web site) so if the rate of a vertical decent is grater than the numbers listed, just work out your average rate of decent to match with maybe 10% safety factored in and there will be your ball park forward. Does that make sense?

Mitch.

Thanks Mitch,

I don't have a VSI, but I do have an old hang gliding Vario I've been meaning to mount. I would like to get a G meter either way, just for reference.

The Monarch/Jabiru I saw 5 months ago was in Olney Texas and was almost ready then. He was going to fly it down to South America somewhere. A Really clean installation. Hope he can keep it cool.
 
Top